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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To tell my son that he doesn't have to pray?

226 replies

SweetAudrina · 10/02/2009 18:51

DS goes to a normal state primary. Not a religious school.

Yet the kids are forced to pray a Christian prayer every assembly. Even the athiest/muslim/hindu kids etc.

I have told DS he doesn't have to pray but he should sit still and quiet whilst other people do. However today he was told off for not praying!!

If the teacher asks me about it (as DS told her I said he didn't have to) am I going to come across a "difficult" parent who is just trying to cause trouble or am I justified in thinking that kids shouldn't be FORCED to pray?

OP posts:
Original poster
SweetAudrina · 10/02/2009 18:52

And yes, we do celebrate crimbo before anyone throws that one at me but we don't celebrate it as a religious holiday.

OP posts:
poopscoop · 10/02/2009 18:53

are you sure they are forced to pray? All religions? And to pray a christian prayer?

Thunderduck · 10/02/2009 18:54

It's a state school and they have to pray? If so YANBU. I'd be furious if they were told off for not praying.

catweazle · 10/02/2009 18:55

Schools are required by law to provide a collective act of worship. If you feel so strongly about it pull him out. Otherwise you are teaching him to ignore the teachers, which will lead to problems.

melpomene · 10/02/2009 18:56

YANBU. They shouldn't force him to pray. Have you thought of withdrawing him from assemblies? I think you have the right to do that, though it doesn't seem fair for him to have to be singled out in that way. They should allow him to sit quietly while others are praying.

twentypence · 10/02/2009 18:56

I'd just be really sure that he was not messing about before I went in to school. As long as he sits quietly and looks at his feet he shouldn't get into trouble.

Thunderduck · 10/02/2009 18:56

If that's the case Catweazle then that is completely wrong. And why should it be a Christian prayer? I wouldn't be at all happy with that.

There's nothing wrong with a child sitting quietly and respectfully while those who wish to pray do so.

spongebrainbigpants · 10/02/2009 18:59

That is absolutely disgraceful . I taught at a state non-religious school, we held an assembly every morning but children were certainly not forced to pray.

You should speak to the teacher. Sitting quietly is not remotely disrespectful and when I was on assembly duty I would never have told off a child for doing this - only if they were talking and/or messing around/staring out the window, etc.

I don't think you should be forced to pull him out of assembly as he will miss out on the general discussions and togetherness that this time brings.

The school are being totally out of order, YANBU. If you wanted your son to pray you would have sent him to a religious school.

southeastastra · 10/02/2009 19:01

how do they force them? my sons school all do morning prayer it's just a nice collective little quiet start to the day.

what's the big deal?

edam · 10/02/2009 19:02

I'd go in and talk to his teacher as it's entirely possible something has been lost in translation here. Of course no-one should force him to pray! As long as he's sitting quietly, I really see what the problem is.

Catweazle's right about the legal duty for a collective act of worship (and it has to be of a broadly Christian nature unless the school has opted out for reasons to do with their intake) but nowhere does it say children will be forced to pray.

Thunderduck · 10/02/2009 19:04

The law really ought to be changed then. State schools should be entirely secular in nature.

southeastastra · 10/02/2009 19:08

i think it's quite nice really

happywomble · 10/02/2009 19:11

Thank goodness children do still say prayers in assembly.

YABU

Thunderduck · 10/02/2009 19:14

It isn't very nice if you aren't a Christian is it? If you're Jewish, Atheist, a Muslim etc then it's rather inappropriate.

piscesmoon · 10/02/2009 19:17

I have never heard that before, generally they say 'sit quietly and if you wish to make it your prayer say Amen', they have by law to hold an act of collective worship. See 1998 education act. It won't change until state and church are separate.

TheDevilWearsPrimark · 10/02/2009 19:20

HappyWomble as an atheist I would not be happy with that at all. Why should religion be forced on vulnerable minds?

fuzzywuzzy · 10/02/2009 19:25

Do schools really still do this? Brings back dreadful memories as a child at primary school. When we were forced to pray at lunchitime at school (it was not a religious school), however all children had to do this hands together eyes closed thing and one child was picked to say the prayer and everyone was expected to say amen after it.

One little girl then started copying her friend who was RC and crossing herself afterwards, the headmistress saw her do this and screamed in her face 'how dare you cross yourself, are you RC are you RC' (I had no idea what that meant at the time not being remotely christian), neither did the little girl as she was sikh...

Looking back I don't blame her, we were all forced to do the chirstian prayer and yet the little girl got yelled at for imitating her friend, of course she copied her friend she was told to copy the christian children in the first place.....

Homebird8 · 10/02/2009 19:27

I think the worship is supposed to be "mainly of a broadly Christian nature" but also that schools that are not Church schools are not allowed to "nurture" in a faith even within this act of worship.

spongebrainbigpants · 10/02/2009 19:32

Happywomble, what a strange thing to say - I am an atheist and would ensure my children go to a secular school so would be furious if prayers were forced on them in anyway whatsoever.

Christian prayers are no more relevant to my family then Muslim, Jewish or Buddhist but I can imagine the outcry if they were included in morning assembly. It's you that's being unreasonable.

NoIAmTheNewQueenofMN · 10/02/2009 19:34

Southeastastra

It's quite nice to be forced to pray????

southeastastra · 10/02/2009 19:44

i said it was quite nice to collectively get together for a quiet prayer in the morning.

why the ?

we've always done it at the schools here. lots of fuss about nothing. it's nothing new is it.

Thunderduck · 10/02/2009 19:47

It isn't a lot of fuss about nothing if you're expected to pray to a God that isn't yours or that you don't believe in.

spongebrainbigpants · 10/02/2009 19:47

southeastastra, it's not the assembly that's the issue, it's the prayers - alot of people find these a problem nowadays either because they are of a different faith or (more commonly) none at all

assemblies are great - but in a secular school they should be secular assemblies

southeastastra · 10/02/2009 19:51

but i'm not particularly religious, i just don't see it as such a big deal.

the majority of parents here have no problems with it and there are enough religious schools round here for people who do feel strongly about their religions.

Thunderduck · 10/02/2009 19:52

Precisely, which is why if they want Christian prayers, or any really, in school they should send their child to a faith school.

Prayers have no place in a state school and the law really needs to change.

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