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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To tell my son that he doesn't have to pray?

226 replies

SweetAudrina · 10/02/2009 18:51

DS goes to a normal state primary. Not a religious school.

Yet the kids are forced to pray a Christian prayer every assembly. Even the athiest/muslim/hindu kids etc.

I have told DS he doesn't have to pray but he should sit still and quiet whilst other people do. However today he was told off for not praying!!

If the teacher asks me about it (as DS told her I said he didn't have to) am I going to come across a "difficult" parent who is just trying to cause trouble or am I justified in thinking that kids shouldn't be FORCED to pray?

OP posts:
tumtumtetum · 10/02/2009 20:07

If the children are expected to join in with the prayer every morning then I guess they are expected to say the lord's prayer?

I would be deeply unhappy if someone taught DD to recite the lord's prayer by rote, or any other prayer.

If you don't believe in god the whole idea of your child worshipping every morning is not right.

Worshipping god should be for faith schools and church. We're not americans for crying out loud!

lal123 · 10/02/2009 20:11

I agree that it is absolutely terrible that a child should be forced to pray to a God they do not believe in. I wouldn't be waiting for the teacher to talk to me - i'd be having a word with them

tumtumtetum · 10/02/2009 20:15

Audrina maybe you should ask your DS if there is a prayer they have all learnt - or is it that they have to put their hands together prayer style and he wasn't doing that?

Either way there should be no problem with him sitting quietly and not joining in.

KerryMumbles · 10/02/2009 20:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tumtumtetum · 10/02/2009 20:22

kerry what's the world coming to?

KerryMumbles · 10/02/2009 20:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tumtumtetum · 10/02/2009 20:27

Phew

Don't like to think these modern catholic children are getting away without the complusory hour long prayer session every morning

spongebrainbigpants · 10/02/2009 20:30

Thunderduck, totally agree. Secular schools should not include religious worship. RE yes, but that's a different matter.

Lulumama · 10/02/2009 20:31

I spoke to the head of year as we are not christian and i did not want DS having to pray to jesus. they were fine about it, and he does not have to sing xmas songs or easter songs about jesus. best to speak to the school direct, but it might be a bit different if you are christian , to ask to not engage in christian worship.

but, if you are not religious, and do not worship in any way, then i do understadnt

but if it is a nice general praising of god/nature/giving of thanks, then YAB a bit U

so speak to the school!

spongebrainbigpants · 10/02/2009 20:32

kerry, how on earth did you get in to a Catholic school as an agnostic?!! (And, more to the point, why on earth would you want to! )

chegirl · 10/02/2009 20:32

Are you sure they are forced to pray (or even pretend to pray)? I mean, have you actually witnessed this? Surely many parents would be incandescent if they found out?

Even fairly relaxed Muslims object to their child being forced to say a Christian prayer wouldnt they? Sorry if I am making assumptions but even my 'lapsed' muslim friends would have something to say about that!

I am a Christian and I would strongly object to any of my kids being told off for not praying. Being told off for mucking about during prayers is different tho, are you sure this isnt what happened.

If all is how you think then YANBU at all.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 10/02/2009 20:37

In Scotland, you can opt out of religious observance and participation.

KerryMumbles · 10/02/2009 20:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
SweetAudrina · 10/02/2009 20:42

Its the Lords Prayer. I know as I have been in assemblys when they've done it. When the head has finished waffling, she says "right children, now put your hands together for prayer" and as all the kids bow their heads and put their hands together (including little Muslims etc) the head starts reciting the lords prayer.

Some of the kids do rebel (mainly the foreign kids) but 99% do it or are told off.

OP posts:
tumtumtetum · 10/02/2009 20:46

Well that's really off IMO.

I think you need to have a word I'm afraid. Forcing kiddies to pray like that in a state school just seems really bizarre.

I'm surprised all the teachers go along with it as well TBH. If I taught there (not very likely as I work in insurance) I'd be asking some questions...

edam · 10/02/2009 20:48

I was caught out by being indoctrinated with the Lord's Prayer as a small child. Went to church recently, first time I'd been apart from weddings and funerals for years. Got the Lord's Prayer all wrong as they've changed it! I was saying 'Our father which art in heaven, hallowed be they name' and they were saying something like 'hiya God, hope everything's fine, look after us when you get a mo'.

chegirl · 10/02/2009 20:52

I really dont think YABU.

I think its awful.

Forcing prayers on kids is wrong. I love the Lords Prayer. It brings me comfort (probably,mainly due to it's familiarity) but what on earth is to be gained from kids being forced to say it?

It doesnt mean anything if its forced and not understood. Its making me feel a bit cross (oooo stand back). Its making a mockery of a beautiful prayer and turning into a meaningless prattle.

My OH insists the kids say grace and I HATE it! He doesnt even go to church. I dont like the way the kids say forwhatweareabouttorecievemaythelordmakeustrulythankfulamen.

NONE forces MY kids to pray except ME.

tumtumtetum · 10/02/2009 20:52

I know edam - the last time I went the end had changed.

As I was standing in stony-faced silence at the time I fortunately didn't make a tit of myself.

It's wonderful I'm so able to get into the swing of things at the multidue of religious ceremonies I seem to get invited to

chegirl · 10/02/2009 20:55

edam they do not say that!
Its Our father in heaven hallowed be your name, your kingdom come' instead of thy and arts and stuff.

Forgive us our trespasses has become forgive us our sins.

I used to like the hissing noise everybody made when they said forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.

I have been saying the new version for about 16 years but still have the old version playing along in my head.

We had to say it everyday at school too.

tumtumtetum · 10/02/2009 21:00

chegirl that was the bit that they all got wrong! And they go to church every week!

Meanwhile the stony faced athiest at the back picks up on the humungous clanger they have all dropped - of course it is trespasses! Anything else is just crazy.

Trespasses sounds better in the verse anyway don't you think? Do you know why they changed it?

loobeylou · 10/02/2009 21:03

definitely you have the right to exclude your child from the religious parts of the assembly should you wish. Till 9 yrs ago I taught in a state non church affiliated primary school where each class said their own prayer at the end of the day - one muslim boy would go and stand by the door because "i don't say the prayer" (as he told me on the first day)

funnily enough he always joined in the Amen at the end which i thought was really sweet!

FWIW I am a christian but do not object to the celebration of Diwali or chinese new year etc at school.

loobeylou · 10/02/2009 21:06

as an aside - FIL is a vicar and taught DH and siblings the "new" lords prayer in the 80's but in my exp MOST churches still use the old version

Smithagain · 10/02/2009 21:11

I am a children's worker for a local church and take assemblies as part of my job. Even in our church school, it is entirely recognised that not all children will participate in prayer - if they don't pray, they should sit quietly and not disrupt, but they don't have to join in.

I think it would be entirely reasonable to have a word with the teacher about exactly what he's being expected to do. Learning the words of the Lord's prayer could be regarded as a reasonable part of RE - since it's such a core part of Christian tradition. But no-one should be forced to say it as a prayer, if they don't mean it.

chegirl · 10/02/2009 21:13

TumT,

Well I dont think I am qualified to pronounce on behalf of the Anglican church........

I think it was just done to make it a bit easier to say and to use more modern English.

I dont object to Dwiali either but I would object if anyone was made to say a hindu prayer if they didnt want to.

solidgoldbullet4myvalentine · 10/02/2009 21:19

Check with the school first (in case he has been messing about) then say politely that you have told him he must sit quietly and not disrupt those who are praying, but you do not want him to be commanded to say prayers that are of no relevance to him or his family. Is it a very whitebread area, so the head can get away with the 'everyone's a Christian and you;re just making a fuss' approach?

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