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Original poster

4-year old excluded of Reception class for biting 3 weeks after starting school... Anyone experienced the same???

348 replies

brette · 07/02/2009 19:19

Hello,

My son is 4 and started reception 3 weeks ago after 12 months in nursery. In nursery, he had trouble settling in but after a while and a lot of patience and encouragement from the dedicated staff, settled in very nicely... with the occasional to frequent bitings. Never in a "malicious" offensive way, more as a "defence"/compulsive/impulsive way when his space is being invaded. Very hard and stressdul for everyone involved (the bitten, the biter, all parents...) But they got it under control after a lot of praising and generally speaking a gentle and psychological approach. He still has to be assessed to see if there's anything related to sensorial issues. He's the youngest of the class, loves school and is extremely bright.
An Early Intervention team got involved, he was observed, the conclusion was there wasn't anything "wrong" with him, many reports were written and before he went to Reception, we had a meeting with the new school child therapist, the Early Year Intervention team therapist, the nursery staff, etc... so that the transition to school would be smooth.

First day at school, the headteacher tells me: "I understand your son has special needs" ...
Second day at school, the teacher tells me: "He bit a child today, is it something he's done before?" I told her nicely to read the report we had taken so much time to make specially for her...
Two weeks later, he bit a child and the child bled. Very shocking and inacceptable. The head called me and asked me to collect him to "punish" him and as he was a danger to other kids. On collecting him, I saw the child therapist of the school who admitted they hadn't been any communication of reports between the nursery and the school. That she had just spoken to the nursery therapist and that she had a better picture of the situation. I said I was surprised they didn't get any of the reports since their whole point was to avoid this very confusion...
And now all the head is telling me is "This behaviour has to stop..." Err, we all agree on that, if we knew how to, we would...

Anyone has experienced something similar?

Sorry very long post, but I feel let down and angry by the whole situation.

OP posts:
Original poster
brette · 10/02/2009 20:03

Sassybeast,
Thank you so much for your insight.

"Remove a treat or a toy - teach him that actions have consequences." Woa, we hadn't thought about that one! Great thinking...

OP posts:
desertgirl · 10/02/2009 20:04

sassybeast, you might want to reread the OP. She said the bitings were 'occasional to frequent' to start off with at nursery, but that they had got it under control, using the approaches the school is now discussing.

She has had professional advice on how to deal with it (which is what the school until now has been ignoring) - why do so many people who haven't met the child think they know so much better?

brette, good luck, again

(PS, my tiny 15 month old DD has a big bruise on her arm from some biter at nursery. Should I be calling the police??)

Original poster
brette · 10/02/2009 20:06

shrinetothomastank, thank you. And you are right, I've been wasting so much energy justifying myself to people I don't even know. Forums are a bit mad that way, aren't they?
Anyway, deep down I know he'll be alright because he's a very endearing boy and this side of him doesn't sum it up at all. I'll come back on this thread in 18 years time for the follow-up!

Bye for now.

OP posts:
Original poster
brette · 10/02/2009 20:07

desertgirl, thank you.

OP posts:
shrinetothomastank · 10/02/2009 20:13

Last post from me - but to assybeast; most people who work with children believe that 7 is the av. age for being able to reason and fully think through situations - and this can be later for boys who can still be impulsive....there is a reason the crinimal awareness age is 12! So, I would be more sympathetic to your point of view if Brette's son was older or you were not so dismissive and smug. Until her son is older, support is needed and understanding from other parents would be good. Epecially as really clever children can often act impulsively when they are young and not fully understanding of their world. The school can handle the situatuion in a very different way from the way they did, hopefully to recognise stress points and avoid them. I'd be upset if my son was hurt at school but the duty of care covers all children. End of from me, good luck Brette

shrinetothomastank · 10/02/2009 20:13

Last post from me - but to assybeast; most people who work with children believe that 7 is the av. age for being able to reason and fully think through situations - and this can be later for boys who can still be impulsive....there is a reason the crinimal awareness age is 12! So, I would be more sympathetic to your point of view if Brette's son was older or you were not so dismissive and smug. Until her son is older, support is needed and understanding from other parents would be good. Epecially as really clever children can often act impulsively when they are young and not fully understanding of their world. The school can handle the situatuion in a very different way from the way they did, hopefully to recognise stress points and avoid them. I'd be upset if my son was hurt at school but the duty of care covers all children. End of from me, good luck Brette

Sassybeast · 10/02/2009 20:15

Brette at no point in this thread have you mentioned anything about any form of sanctions or punishment. You asked for suggestions and advice. What you REALLY want is lots of pats on the head - well you've got those so lets see how long it is until another child is bleeding eh ? Have you ever stopped to think that some of the advice you've had is from people who have been there, got the T shirt and moved on ? That incudes the head teacher at the school ?

Cake · 10/02/2009 20:16

desertgirl And she also said, in answer to another poster, that the biting had more or less stopped, apart from the 'bloody bloody' incident when she'd also said he'd bitten both before and after that.

I'm sure the nursery did help reduce the biting a lot, but it sounds like it probably went on at nursery for a long time. As it's normal for preschool kids to bite, do you really think the nursery would have got specialist teams involved if they didn't think this was a particularly persistent and difficult problem? Don't you think the nursery are used to kids who bite and who grow out of it naturally? They certainly don't write reports or liaise with schools for all kids who bite. They clearly thought it was a special case.

Cake · 10/02/2009 20:21

Shrinetothomastank Er, actually, the the criminal awareness age (or age of criminal responsibility, to give it it's proper name) isn't 12. It's 10. Just so you know

shrinetothomastank · 10/02/2009 20:22

good to know, thanks...so it's not 4 then?...

Cake · 10/02/2009 20:26

Don't appreciate being corrected, eh?
You are a teacher in a secondary school, right? Thought you would have known that ...

desertgirl · 10/02/2009 20:32

cake - she said it had more or less stopped in response to a direct question as to whether he was still biting his parents. I can't see what the school incidents have to do with that.

She has said several times that she knows it is a problem, that nursery knew it was a problem, that they have tried all sorts of things and got a specialist team involved - why are you apparently thinking that all it would take is for her to take his toys away or whatever?

Original poster
brette · 10/02/2009 20:33

Sassybeast, you don't read properly and it gets really annoying. And don't tell me I can't take criticism, it is tiring.

Cake, this child is indeed a special case, but not all is regarding the violence.
Special teams are involved for many many things, and most of the times, it ends up being nothing. But they want to make sure. In the case of my son, once he was observed, they concluded there was nothing to be panicky about, just to follow a strategy.

The nursery has understood that the biting will eclipse all the rest (given the one-dimensional views here, they were very right) and they wanted to make sure it wouldn't happen.

And they will be very sorry to see it has.

OP posts:
MmeLindt · 10/02/2009 20:36

Brette
I hope you come back to MN though, and don't feel put off by some of the narrowminded responses on this thread.

(and I am not just saying that because I need all the French speaking MNetters to stay here and help me with translations occasionally)

Seems to me that you and the school are now working well together to help your DS. Good luck.

Cake · 10/02/2009 20:38

desertgirl I really don't think that all it would take is for her to take his toys away - where on earth did I say or even imply that? Nor do I, like several of the posters on here, think that all it would take is for him to be bit back.

desertgirl · 10/02/2009 20:40

Really Brette's question, as I read it, is ís it unreasonable for me to expect school to follow the strategies that nursery and home have been given by the relevant special team in order to deal with this unacceptable behaviour'. And I think the answer, overall, has been 'no that is not unreasonable but with hindsight you should perhaps have gone and talked to new head and new teacher and gone over the papers with them in person'

but the 'nearly as popular' answer has been 'you are responsible, you should take his toys away/hang him upside down in a cupboard every time he does it/if he bit my child I would be round your door with a whip' - which is really quite odd, in the circumstances.

Ah well.

shrinetothomastank · 10/02/2009 20:40

No, correction not a problem (Always eager to learn!) I must admit, I did think 10...12?..but can we agree not 4??!!! However...Truce... I have to cuddle teething babe...Can we agree that op was right in the first place at being annoyed with school as they had not read all the info and that she is now dealing with a difficult, on- going situation. I would argue that in dealing with it she is being top mother who does not need a lot of the agressive judgement I've read on this thread....and that a 4 yr old boy is not a threat to humanity. Night Night xx

Cake · 10/02/2009 20:41

And desertgirl When I said brette misleading said it had more or less stopped, I was referring to a comment she made pages ago to someone else, not in reference to biting her but in direct reference to biting other children.

desertgirl · 10/02/2009 20:43

cake, he has been. didn't work.

Are you generally in favour of violence or only in this specific case?

and admittedly the toys comment wasn't yours.

Cake · 10/02/2009 20:46

desertgirl HUH? What on earth do you mean am I in favour of violence? Where did I suggest that? One or two other posters said all that was needed was for him to be bitten back, even suggesting that in the past brette would have been advised to bite him herself. I find that horrifying, actually. Don't think at all that biting him back is the solution.

Cake · 10/02/2009 20:47

Sorry, I wasn't very clear in my earlier post, am typing too quickly. I meant to say "UNLIKE some of the posters here."

desertgirl · 10/02/2009 20:52

Sorry Cake, misread your post as you saying that was all it would take. My only excuse is it is nearly 1am here and I should be in bed. I do now see what you said.

You do seem to be being very hard on her over something which she said 'had' more or less stopped at nursery, and at home, and had started up again at school since the start of this term.

anyway, good night, will read more carefully next time; ironic after thinking other people weren't doing

Sassybeast · 10/02/2009 21:01

Brette - you have contradicted yourself so many times that it's now quite funny. I'll give you some direct quotes in response to your criticisms of my interpretation of your situation :

'At nursery, when they realised that he was like that, they would PROVOKE him until he hit. So in this case, who's the bad guy '

'So the next step was to explain to him that sometimes words don't work immediately but that it is not a reason to bite and hurt and that he should go and speak to an adult immediately'

'But of course we tell him and repeat to him that it is unnaceptable'

'Tell me what happened - I won't tell you off so i spoke very calmly to him. I explained myself thouroughly. I've told him off a million times'

No mention of sanctions or punishments (apart from his computer) Rather a lot of talking and it doesn't seem to be working. What exactly DID you say to him when he had been sent home from school ?

Original poster
brette · 10/02/2009 21:15

I don't see your point.
But anyway... as I said many times but necessarily in the extracts you took and which make you laugh so hard. It is soooo funny. Condescendance is ugly.
So back to the point: he's been told off many many times (we all lost our temper because of his biting many times). He's been punished with treats cancelled, activities suspended...etc Confiscating things doesn't work apart from the computer because to him any toy is easily replaceable. He keeps himself busy with anything. Right now, we're working on the computer being taken away and given back when he will have not bitten for X times.
Generally speaking, he is very well behaved, helpful and a pleasure to be around as everyone who meets him assures me. So clearly, we must do something right.

Now, let me tell you something, you clearly don't want to understand anything, and you don't seem to willing to let go. And you come back and come back and come back.
You actually remind me of a toddler. So tell me, if an adult like you is not capable of using her brains on a situation like this, what chances is there that a 4-old would easily eradicate a behaviour so compulsive so easily?

Goodnight and adios!

OP posts:
Milliways · 10/02/2009 21:18

A recepton aged child was Permanently excluded from DD's Primary (Years ago, she was 5 is now 17) but I stiull shudder at the memories.

He was 5, should have been in reception but put in Yr1 with a more experienced teacher. After he started DD stopped wanting to go to school. He kept hitting her (and others) and even tried to throttle the girl sat in front of him in assembly. SHe would only go in to school after I promised to speak to the Teacher and make her keep this boy away from her. She was 5.

I REALLY felt for this boy, he was soo young, BUT he was ruining my child's school experience. I complained and the Head was great and tried all sorts of coping strategies, (he had a 1-2-1 support, came in late & home early to avoid cloakroom crushes etc, allowed time out to run around playground every hour or so) but the violence continued and he ended up at a special school.

I know your child is not THIS bad (and DD was a nursey biter herself) BUT I think the Head is right to exclude and impose rules for the sake of the other kids.