4-year old excluded of Reception class for biting 3 weeks after starting school... Anyone experienced the same???

[brette]

Hello,

My son is 4 and started reception 3 weeks ago after 12 months in nursery. In nursery, he had trouble settling in but after a while and a lot of patience and encouragement from the dedicated staff, settled in very nicely... with the occasional to frequent bitings. Never in a "malicious" offensive way, more as a "defence"/compulsive/impulsive way when his space is being invaded. Very hard and stressdul for everyone involved (the bitten, the biter, all parents...) But they got it under control after a lot of praising and generally speaking a gentle and psychological approach. He still has to be assessed to see if there's anything related to sensorial issues. He's the youngest of the class, loves school and is extremely bright.
An Early Intervention team got involved, he was observed, the conclusion was there wasn't anything "wrong" with him, many reports were written and before he went to Reception, we had a meeting with the new school child therapist, the Early Year Intervention team therapist, the nursery staff, etc... so that the transition to school would be smooth.

First day at school, the headteacher tells me: "I understand your son has special needs" ...
Second day at school, the teacher tells me: "He bit a child today, is it something he's done before?" I told her nicely to read the report we had taken so much time to make specially for her...
Two weeks later, he bit a child and the child bled. Very shocking and inacceptable. The head called me and asked me to collect him to "punish" him and as he was a danger to other kids. On collecting him, I saw the child therapist of the school who admitted they hadn't been any communication of reports between the nursery and the school. That she had just spoken to the nursery therapist and that she had a better picture of the situation. I said I was surprised they didn't get any of the reports since their whole point was to avoid this very confusion...
And now all the head is telling me is "This behaviour has to stop..." Err, we all agree on that, if we knew how to, we would...

Anyone has experienced something similar?

Sorry very long post, but I feel let down and angry by the whole situation.

Oh dear I am sorry you are having to step in and coorindate the jobs/info that others are paid to do. Please make sure you follow through and stick up for your son.

(((big hugs)))

I think this sanction was extreme, they need to put some concetrated effort in situ to guide your son, schools have Classroom Assistants now that they coud use.

As for the poster that said it is late for this type of behaviour, unfortunately we have a school system that everyone has to go into at the same age and not all children are at the same stage.

My DS3 has both bitten and been bitten he has passed this phase this little boy just needs more guidance to unlearn this habit.

If the report was a transition report as the OP said so then of course it would be of use, most school welcome as much data/info when accepting new children. Its disgusting this report got lost, all they needed to do was contiue with the strategies that the nursery had foudn to have worked in moving him forward.

OP I would write a letter of complaint to the board fo governors and the LEA - this school needs to sit up and take notice

Glad it's all sorted Brette sounds very positive and a good way forward,apologies for spelling,head bug and knackered after a day with 3 dc and 2 bday parties-we teachers are human

Where is your DS's school? My cousin, a teacher in South London, says in some areas biting is taken exceptionally seriously. The staff try not to reveal why to the biter's parents, and stick to explaining simple rules about acceptable/not acceptable behaviour.

The real reason? Several children in the school - including in their most recent 'little nipper's' class - are HIV positive. HIV can be easily caught from giving human bites. The school have no intention - or permission - of telling the 'nippers' this - neither should they - but, upsetting as it is, there are reasons why it can be a good idea when someone tries to deal with your child's anti-social behaviour....

Brette - that's a great start!! Keep posting updates on here to let us know how it's going

auntyitaly and

good luck Brette.

auntyitaly, isn't it a good idea for schools to deal with antisocial behaviour even without that risk? can't imagine anyone not wanting their child to be firmly discouraged from biting!

and really, 'easily caught'? would have to break the skin for a start, which most bites don't.

really glad the school had stepped up to the mark brette, good luck.

Well, yes, it is awful and of course I don't want to give you the creeps - my cousin's school is probably not typical of schools UK-wide in these terms. But it might explain the 'histrionics' 'overreaction' some people complain of.

Psychiatrists deal with persistent biters and their parents by asking the parents: "Could you control a child who was putting his hand on a lit gas ring?". The parents are then asked to use their reaction and subsequent behaviour on the child when he bites. Technique often works for stubborn nippers.

auntyitaly - this is absolue crap and you should really educate yourself before posting rubbish like it on an internet forum where people are histrionic enough to begin with.

I own three nurseries and have worked in several schools - some of them in London - and have never come across anyone who takes biting 'exceptionally seriously' because of the risk of HIV. I suppose there is a theoretical risk, but I've never heard of any child catching HIV through being bitten by another child. I'd be very interested to know if there's a documented case of this happening anywhere.

As for 'several' children being infected in one school in South London, I sincerely doubt this. I've never encountered one infected child. Of course, they can remain anonymous, so it's possible I've come across one or two in the past ten years - but several? You must be joking.

I have just looked this up on NHS direct. It says that you can catch HIV, hepatitis B etc from a bite. It also says that if you are bitten by a human and the bite breaks the skin you should seek immediate medical attention in order to get a course of antibiotics to prevent infections.

So a bite that leads to bleeding is not, it would seem, similar to a push or a scraped knee. You do not routinely go to see a doctor because of a scraped knee.

In the US, if your child bites someone and it breaks the skin then you are advised to vaccinate the child that bites against hepatitis B, as they can catch it from the blood in their mouth.

brette - I've been following your thread but stopped posting when it started getting out of hand with unconstructive posts. I'm glad your meeting with the parent and school went well and hope you can work together your dc. As I said imho they will grow out of it, ds1 did and ds2 now very rarely bites....

Good luck

Have no idea aboutthe number of children with HIV. But there must be some risk associated with contamination when bitten. My brother is a police officer and gets bitten by offenders on a very regular basis. He has to have a HIV test every time it happens.

Bobbysmum - sorry if it caused meltdown, but sadly the facts are correct.

I suspect your area of South London is not where I'm talking about. I'm certainly not going to cause more hysteria by naming mine - leafy Clapham it ain't.

As desertgirl points out, by far the more important point is that biting has to be reinforced as socially unacceptable, which Brette is all too aware of, and specialist help given when it becomes a problem to the child, and to other children, who need to be protected.

Whilst I think that the OP is handling the situation well and I wish her lots of luck and hope she gets the support she needs, I would like to address the myth that seems to have evolved through this thread that a child 'only' bites when provoked. My eldest daughter was bitten repeatedly at nursery by the same child (she was one of a few victims and they were only toddlers at the time) It was widely acknowledged and recognised that this child was biting with no provocation at all - if she wanted something, she bit. If a child was in her way, she bit. If she had atantrum, she bit. The child is now 6 years old and 'still' bites although less frequently. Just wanted to point that out as it's often given as a justification for biting that the child was provoked and it's really not always the case. And also to reinforce the idea that a bite in which the skin is broken/blood is drawn DOES need medical attention and assessment.

Hi Brette. Couple of things. First I think its clear you've tried hard to work with the nursery to resolve the issues and i think you should be commended for that. I think the communication between nursery and school could and should have been better. I also think you should have made am appointment to talk with his new class teacher right at the start. I say that now although its too late as its prob worth bearing it in mind for future. Don't rely on the school to do it all as, with the best will in the world, things do get missed and noone is ever going to know your son as well as you. I don't think a short fixed term exclusion such as you describe was unreasonable. They needed to send a message to the whole class, inc your son AND the injured boy that class is safe and biting is unacceptable. Lastly i do think the asd and sensory avenues need to be explored. I've sat on asd assessment panels for some years. He's clearly a v bright little boy and he needs to be fully understood so he can shine :-) good luck

Re "the myth that seems to have evolved through this thread that a child 'only' bites when provoked."
I don't remember anyone having said that children will "only" bite when provoked and I certainly haven't used the word "provoke" once when trying to explain and understand what can trigger a biting. Trigger is the exact right word I want to use. To identify and reduce these types of incidents, one has to identify the patterns. And in the case of my DS, there are clear patterns. He doesn't run after kids biting them.

You cannot draw conclusions about all behavious related to biting from one example only.
And also, may I point out that studies on this problem show that the biter often feels extremely overwhelmed AND guilty about the whole situation. They don't need to be demonised. They're 4.
Also, having spoken to many primary teachers with a lot of experience, it is far from uncommon to have a biter or two in Reception.
To have a poker or two. A pusher or two. A crier or two, etc...
Re the whole HIV thing... I'm shocked by some things I've just read. A quick search about facts on serious websites might be useful. 20 years ago, politicians advised not to shake hands with HIV-infected people. Thank God things have evolved, but there is still a lot of ignorance about it. Sadly.

RE: "Don't rely on the school to do it all"
As I met with everyone involved before starting school, I think it was kind of normal to expect that they would do their job, since everyone involved told me they had everything in hand. I must even say that we were very optimistic and happy about the level of attention given to the whole situation. How could we have guessed all theses reports, meetings with school representatives were going to be ignored by the very people (ie the school) who said they were aware of it all?

BuT...
The head started in January.
The deputy head who was present at the meeting organised in December left in January.
The SENCO couldn't attend the meeting and the educational therapist attended instead.
The teacher started in January.

A tumultuous transition for the school.
Too bad we were caught in it.
Of course in retrospect it is easy to see how we could have done things differently. In retrospect.
Live and learn.

From NHS direct website:

Human bites

If you receive a human bite, there is a risk of you catching a blood-born virus, such as HIV, hepatitis B, and hepatitis C. You should seek immediate medical attention so the risk can be urgently assessed.
If you are bitten by someone, and you are unable to see your GP immediately, you should go straight to your local emergency and accident (A&E) department, or speak to the duty doctor responsible for the out-of-hours service, stressing that you require urgent medical assistance.
Ideally, the medical status of the person who bit you should be assessed, although in many cases, this is not always possible. If it is felt that there is a risk, you will be tested for the above conditions and, if necessary, referred to a specialist for further treatment.

When to seek medical attention

You should seek immediate medical attention for all but minor dog or cat bites. However, even some minor looking cat bites can penetrate deeply and become infected.
Human bites have a much higher chance of causing infection, so you should always seek immediate medical attention before waiting for any symptoms of infection to appear.
You should always seek immediate medical attention if you, or your child, receives a bite to the following areas:
the hands,
the feet,
a joint, tendon, or ligament,
the scalp, or face, and
the ears, or nose.

DandyLioness, when I read this, "HIV can be EASILY caught from giving human bites."
I'm not the one who needs to be educated on this matter.

Brette no they don't need to be 'demonised' but they need to learn that it is wrong and that it is not acceptable in the same way as repeatedly hitting, pushing and shoving other children is not acceptable. Some children will need more intervention to ensure that they get the message that any form of physical aggression against another human being is not acceptable. It's up to the parents and care givers of a child who bites to examine that childs motivations rather than blaming the children who allegedly 'provoke'. This is obviously a very sensitive issue for you and I acknowledged in my first post that you will need extra support from preofessionals in dealing with this. But it is 'not' normal behaviour in a 4 year old and I can't help but feel that if it was your child who had received such a severe bite then your approach would be very different.

fgs it's pretty normal i really feel for you brette, one thread i posted on this subject got about 10 replies. (mostly helpful)

I haven't read all the thread just the 1st couple of pages so sorry if I'm repeating anything that has been said/suggested

My son was bitten by the 'biter' in the class. We are talking full on clamped down on arm bite that left a full circle of teeth marks and lasted for about a week. It went through all the colours of the bruise rainbow and ds was very distressed everytime he saw it.

The mother of the bter was very apologetic and I know he would have been disciplined at school (not allowed to go out to play with the other childre) and at home.

The boy was getting himself a bit of a reputation as the 'naughty' one of the class so I chatted with the mum and we decided that it would be great for my ds to come over and play at his. My ds was a bit heistant but was much happier when I said I would there all the time and would step in if it looked like things were going wrong.

The playdate went really well with both boys bombing around in their back garden, playing in the sandpit doing 'boys' things. Ds said he was surprised that T could be so fun.

We went to the local large house with grounds with ds, around six school friends and the other little boy, again they all got on wonderfully playing with large balls, small balls etc. Yes there were arguments but then there always is with children!

Ds is never going to be best friends with the biter (sorry to keep calling him that!) but he has a little understanding that T himself is actullay a fun boy to play with but it's the biting we/he doesn't like. He even sat next to him at T's party (he moved away from him at a previous party and when I asked him why he said as T wasn't very nice and he was naughty)

Ds plays with T at school now and knows what to do if T looks like he's going to bite -say I don't like what you're doing T so I'm going to play with someone else. This gives my Ds some power over his situation that it is okay not to want to play with someone if you feel threatened by them but you can let them know in a kind way (not -you're naughty I don't want to play with you!!!)
but also sends a clear signal to T that my Ds won't put up with his behaviour.

Could you approach the mum?

What are the strategies that school are going to impliment to help your Ds cope in the classroom (T seems to only bite i the classroom situation but is fine when out in the 'real' world iyswim)

Sorry the point I was making was that it would have been very easy to demonise T and keep my Ds away from him (and join in the opinions of the other mums ) but as Ds has years ahead of being in the same class as this boy I didn't want him to be frightened of him and I wanted him to feel empowered should anything like this happen again. (It hasn't btw) T isn't a nasty boy at all and some of the other mums were being incredibly rude about him and, I think, perpetuating how their children felt about him.

My Ds is going to meet many children and adults trhoughout his life and I feel it's a really good lesson to learn as early as possible ito learn how to get on with people you like but also those you don't...