4-year old excluded of Reception class for biting 3 weeks after starting school... Anyone experienced the same???

[brette]

Hello,

My son is 4 and started reception 3 weeks ago after 12 months in nursery. In nursery, he had trouble settling in but after a while and a lot of patience and encouragement from the dedicated staff, settled in very nicely... with the occasional to frequent bitings. Never in a "malicious" offensive way, more as a "defence"/compulsive/impulsive way when his space is being invaded. Very hard and stressdul for everyone involved (the bitten, the biter, all parents...) But they got it under control after a lot of praising and generally speaking a gentle and psychological approach. He still has to be assessed to see if there's anything related to sensorial issues. He's the youngest of the class, loves school and is extremely bright.
An Early Intervention team got involved, he was observed, the conclusion was there wasn't anything "wrong" with him, many reports were written and before he went to Reception, we had a meeting with the new school child therapist, the Early Year Intervention team therapist, the nursery staff, etc... so that the transition to school would be smooth.

First day at school, the headteacher tells me: "I understand your son has special needs" ...
Second day at school, the teacher tells me: "He bit a child today, is it something he's done before?" I told her nicely to read the report we had taken so much time to make specially for her...
Two weeks later, he bit a child and the child bled. Very shocking and inacceptable. The head called me and asked me to collect him to "punish" him and as he was a danger to other kids. On collecting him, I saw the child therapist of the school who admitted they hadn't been any communication of reports between the nursery and the school. That she had just spoken to the nursery therapist and that she had a better picture of the situation. I said I was surprised they didn't get any of the reports since their whole point was to avoid this very confusion...
And now all the head is telling me is "This behaviour has to stop..." Err, we all agree on that, if we knew how to, we would...

Anyone has experienced something similar?

Sorry very long post, but I feel let down and angry by the whole situation.

you have my sympathies on this one. DD (nearly 3) bit from about 15 months onwards. She still does occasionally, not in a malicious way, i think sometimes its her way of saying 'things are getting too much' even though, like your little boy her communication skills are actually better than average. Sometimes emotional articulation is the last thing to arrive...

Have to disagree with posters who are saying 'this is not normal' at 4 years old. I think 'normality' is a very flexible thing, not set in stone and although it's a good idea to get him a SN assessment don't allow people to pigeonhole him at such a young age. Maturity and self control are things we all gradually accumulate.

My cousin (now 28) was a biter way past 4 years old. I can remember her taking chunks out of my arm when we were both about 10 and being completely baffled that this socially adept, eloquent, popular girl could just turn on me. Charming as she was (and remains) she always laughed it off and we'd just carry on playing after i'd got over the shock. She's now married with two kids, has a great career, tons of friends, is the life and soul of any event, yada yada and is as 'normal' as it's possible to be (whatever that means!)

So that's just one example, i bet there are thousands more under the radar, after all when we were kids i think the desire to put children who didn't exactly conform in neat little boxes wasn't quite so strong as it is now.

muppetgirl, total respect And not just because I'm the mother of a biter. I just think your reaction to the problem is very generous, caring and eventually efficient.

totalmisfit, thank you for your post. I must admit that a part of me wants to have professionals involved to curb the behavior and another part of me thinks that we burden the kinds with labels, psychological assessments, etc which might stress them, certainly the parents, etc... when at the end of the day, all kids express strange and antisocial tendencies at some points. I'm sure the "experts" would have found something terribly "abnormal" with your cousin 28 years ago... Certainly, the older generation of primary teachers I've spoken to seem much more relaxed about it all.

Thanks for that, I was a early years teacher and think that it's really important to help children get on with each other...

I can't stand this 'mob' mentality that some mums have, yes I want nothing more than for ds to be wrapped in cotton wool and never get hurt by anyone but I think in the long term that's totally unrealistic.

Your child's not awful, he just needs a little understanding and a little help in expressing his emotions, the school should really help in this and not just exclude him. I think they are just putting off the problem for another day...

And for those who think this is unusual, it's not. Children of this age can bite, I found more and more children were becoming more agressive towards each other and much more work was needed in classrooms in how to get along with children you like and don't like.

Muppetgirl - interesting point that you make about more and more children becoming aggressive. How much of that is because aggressive behaviour is seen as the norm and as acceptable by some parents ? And those feel that anyone who suggests otherwise is somehow wrong ? It's a little like the thread when someone was complaing that there child was being labelled as a bully when he was clearly bothering and upsetting another child ? Do you find that parents are becoming more and more inclined to 'accept' aggressive behaviour in their own children than they were years ago ? Is it a reflection of society as a whole, with the increasing move towards lack of personal responsibility ? The 'It's not my fault that I'm on the dole, overwight, a smoker, my child hurts others....' mentality ?

We had our biter round to play too.He and his mother were lovely however I don't think not liking your child being bitten is "mob mentality", just understandable.

because there are other reasons sassy. it's too easy to blame the parents. there can be many factors while a child bites.

why is that so hard to understand?

You are missing my point Southeastraaa - show we where I wrote 'It's a parents fault when a child bites. End of. Blame the parents. End of.'

But it's a parents job to take responsibility for whatever issues their child has and deal with them, using whatever means or support are available. Now whether they recognise those issues themselves, or they have to be pointed out to them, a parent ultimately has responsibility for leading, helping, moulding their child to learn what behaviour is acceptable etc ?

Sassybeast,
"How much of that is because aggressive behaviour is seen as the norm and as acceptable by some parents ? And those feel that anyone who suggests otherwise is somehow wrong ?"
May I ask if you are referring to myself? I'm curious.

Brette, how do you think the school should punish your son?

MillyR,
For instance, by excluding him from taking part in the activities he was involved with at that time (plus making him apologise, explaining himl what he should have done, etc.) But removing him from the school earlier didn't teach him anything. He was quite oblivious to the fact that we had to leave school earlier.
I might even add that if my child didn't like school (he loves it), he would probably think it is a good way to be out of school. "I bite, I'm out, great."
It is not addressing the problem at all. I think it is aimed at the bitten child's parents, to show they're doing something, anything.

Brette - if you think that aggressive behaviour is normal and that it is someone elses responsibility to deal with your childs behaviour, then yes, you would fall into the category of parents I was referring to. And if your son was excluded from school for the day because of his aggressive behaviour, but had no idea that the behaviour was the reason for his exclusion, then perhaps it should fall to you, as his parent, to reinforce and explain what had happened as a result of his actions ? What did you do when you got him home ? Some constructive play, drawing/role play to help him understand that what he did was wrong? Or tell him how unreasonable the teacher was ?

Brette, I think your son is going to grow out of this and it probably will all be over and done with quite quickly. But while it is happening it will feel like there is no end in sight.

He'll probably have started biting again because of the move to a new school, and it will stop again once he feels more secure there.

Having had a quick google, it does look like its fairly common for primary schools to have exclusion for biting written into their behaviour policies. When you have a meeting with them, you should ask if they have intentions of excluding him again if his behaviour continues.

I know it is early days, but if they don't seem to manage the issue as well as the nursery did, then maybe he would feel happier and more secure at another school. My ds had all manner of things that were considered 'not normal' when he was in KS1; we moved him to another school and all the problems disappeared.

How long has he been biting? Did it just start when he began nursery?

Brette maybe they did the other things you suggest all the other times he bit. To be honest sending home home for the afternoon would be a fair extension of the previous punishments.

I am NOT attacking you by the way just politely suggesting.

I thought you were now happy with the school and their reasons. If you can't move away from the anger directed at the school who ARE trying to help you aren't going to get anywhere.

They explained their actions and you were happy. If he continues to bite they will have to do something stronger than the punishments you've just mentioned. I notice in your other threads he's been biting since a baby,the class just living with biting on a regular basis is never going to be an option. Apologising is great but if it isn't working they WILL have to bring in other measures however unpleasant that is for you and your son.

If you accept that and work WITH the school and the way THEY want to handle it I think the whole situation could be sorted out sooner. What have you got to loose? Your ways of dealing with it over the years aren't working their ideas might.

Apologies for any spelling mistakes(there must be plenty) and again I'm not attacking just politely suggesting.

MilaMae's advice is very sensible and balanced.

MillyR, I feel that after a bad start, I am confident we will get somewhere. I was very reassured by our quick meeting with the SENCO yesterday. REgarding your son, it is interesting to see how an environment can change everything.

Cake, at the childminder he was with before nursery, he never bit another child.
He started to do it to other children at nursery but they gradually managed to reduce the incidents.
He's always bitten us (his dad and me). We've always been very firm about it (and distressed). I remember saying "At least he doesn't do it to other kids, because that would be terrible" Well...
It seems absolutely compulsive.

Does he still bite you?

Just to back Brette up a little.

At the school where I teach, if we ask a parent to pick a child up early from school because of a behaviour issue, it is classed as a half day, fixed term exclusion.

Her ds, therefore, was excluded from school.

A school cannot simply send a child home from school without following the correct procedure.

MilaMae,
Why on Earth would we adopt a new strategy from scratch? The strategy set up at the nursery was efficient. We had a meeting with the school, they were supposed to use it. He was clearly unsettled in a new environment. There was a serious incident. They punished him. It didn't change anything.

What do I have to lose? Basically we already saw what happends when the strategy is not followed: he bites. I think consistency is the key with kids. So what we've started at nursery and which is giving results should be continued. The SENCO wants to follow the strategy of the nursery. And rightly so. And I am grateful for that.

Cake, it is getting much better. It happens very rarely now.
It is an issue that contrary to what some people assume cannot be resolved with a few firm telling-offs and punishments.
Unfortunately.

he will grow out of it. i don't know what people expect from 4 year olds sometimes.

Sassybeast ? I think it?s a bit of everything you mention really. I notice the older children tried to out sarcasm each other all the time, they never actually have proper conversations as such. It?s a ?oh look he just fell over, how stupid of him?.? Instead of asking if he was all right sort of situation. I hear a lot of ?oh boys will be boys? as if that?s an excuse to let boys behave how they want.
Telly is more violent, there is a huge contrast between cbeebies and cbbc, cbeebies being more gentle and cbbc being very sarcastic towards other children and adults that spills over into the classroom. I am not criticising the op, just answering Sassybeast.

MilaMae ? I found the way our biter was treated was very much in a mob mentality. Mums talked about him and his mother (oh, she?s not a good mum is she?) behind his back, in front of their own children and actively didn?t invite him to their children?s parties or play dates. He was ostracized by the adults, which the children then picked up on. Once a child is labeled the ?naught? child it is very hard for them to shake it off, other children, usually, don?t want to be associated with them and they begin to almost live up (or down if you like) to their label.

MillyR ? I think the school should address the behavior in school as this is where it is causing the problem. Cause and effect so to speak. If he were my pupil I would want to try to find the cause of the behaviour so I cold help him change it. I would ask a TA to observe his behaviour in certain situations ?the ones that are proving the most volatile- this could be carpet time, independent work or free play or even playtime on the playground. I would observe over a number of different days but only for short periods as this would then give me a chance to build a bigger picture. If there are trigger points that begin to cause him stress then I would watch out for that and try to intervene before anything should happen. I would talk to the class about how we play can make others sad or fearful. I would read a story to illustrate, demonstrate with puppets etc ?how does teddy feel when he has been pushed/bitten/left out of a game? If done in a sensitive way this can highlight lots of undesired behaviour and not just single out the op?s ds. All the written observations then form as evidence should the teacher need to seek further help and guidance from the senco or other agencies.
If anything should happen before this is complete then I would take the child away from the situation and talk to him to find out why he does what he does, let him know it?s not acceptable (in children language) accentuating how he makes children feel and he wouldn?t be allowed to join in the activity. This shouldn?t really happen again though as the teacher is aware of the situation.

I would ask for a meeting with the teacher with regard to how the school are going to help your ds not to bite. I would take notes and return a letter to the teacher confirming what she has said and detailing her plan. I would also cc the Head in this just to make sure the school are doing something rather than just sending him home and leaving you to deal with it.

muppetgirl,

Your approach was the one favoured by the nursery, and it worked.

The SENCO will contact me this week to organise a meeting with her and the teacher.
Good idea about the letter. Thanks.

I'm a mum of a ds who bit another boy at school a few weeks ago. The head called me in and had a serious chat with me and ds - to emphasize how serious this was for the school. However, she also seemed to undertand there was build up to the incident and we did discus how these trigger points could be avioded. And very luckily, the other boy's mum had the sense, generousity and experience to handle the situation without demonising my boy to others.
Therefore....completely agree with muppetgirl re chool management( I'm a teacher too know it can be done)... top mum brette for raising this as a lot of us deal with it and yes there is a mob mentality which is both nasty and unproductive...and in the end, by stopping the activities that our ds enjoyed socially outside school temporarily to teach him biting was not going to be the bet way to behave out there..we're cracking the problem. But your school does need to be as supportive and as pro- active as they now sugget; and it is very difficult for any child to change long term behaviour without the ability to understand what is wrong or how to change...so good work brette and good luck to you and your family. You are obviously a loving, caring mum to cheers to you!

Brette

With respect, you seem to be in denial. I've read the whole thread and you are quick to quote other posters when you feel (often wrongly) that they are attacking you. But when a poster asks you a question that points out something you wish to avoid, you simply don't answer the question.

It happens very rarely? Come on! You said yourself he's bitten several times since starting school a matter of weeks ago. The problem was clearly severe and ongoing enough for the nursery to write reports for the school and get involved with early intervention teams.

I am not in any way demonsing your son's behaviour - and neither was the last poster who you accused of doing so, sassybeast or whoever. It isn't abnormal for four year olds to bite. But his biting has been going for over three years according to your other posts. That is a very long time. You can argue that "contrary to what some people assume cannot be resolved with a few firm telling-offs and punishments", but that's hardly the case here, is it! You've been telling him of for three years! (unless you've only told him off a few times during those three years? )

It is, IMO, rather unusual for a child to persist biting for so long. I would have been aside myself by now. Did the early intervention team give you techniques on how to deal with it? Have you had advice on what to do from your end?