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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to tell ds to hit this little boy back??

338 replies

Nemoandthefishes · 30/01/2009 21:11

little boy in ds class has been badly bullying one of ds friends for the last couple of months. However today he decided to punch ds in the stomach and then told him not to tell, so ds didnt until he punched him in the stomach again at which point he told the teacher whose answer was 'oh just ignore him'. So I have told ds if the little boy punches him again to hit him back usually I wouldnt have said this but ds has already been through a bullying incident since sept and only just got it sorted about 2 weeks ago.

OP posts:
Ronaldinhio · 30/01/2009 23:22

jooly what do you mean by coward of the county?
sorry I don't understand the reference

tw1nkley · 30/01/2009 23:31

For those who have not been on the receiving end of serious bullying, hitting back is actually classed as self defence. I don't think it is reasonable ( or even legal?) for a school to tell children that they are not allowed to defend themeselves.

Ronaldinho - i'm not going to flame you at all, It sounds to me as tho' you were very lucky to grow up in a warm loving family where everyone was comfortable enough to leg pull and tease in comfort.

There is unfortunatley a massive difference between our circumstances.

I was not remotely hot housed I had 2 older sisters one of whom we (my other sister and i) are convinced has some sort of personality disorder. My sister and I ( the sane one) were beaten up by her regularly for a very long time and no-one showed us how to stop that either. I can honestly not remember how many times she pushed me down the stairs.

I definatly wasn't overprotected. If anything my nuts sister apparantly made me and my other sister into natural victims - we didn't fight back because it would make it worse. We were wrong. Where were my parents in all of this? pretending it wasn't happening.

QS · 30/01/2009 23:38

Yabu.

The problem with hitting back, is that your son, is probably not "the hitting type" and so he is an easy target and easy to pick on.

If your son tries to hit back, he is likely to do it clumsily, without strenght, and just provoke the bully even further. The bully will then hit back harder, and you have set your son up for a full blown attack, which is likely to hurt your son even more.

Ronaldinhio · 30/01/2009 23:41

Twinkley I agree that it's terrible to grow up somewhere where the bullying is in the home and I also question where the parents are in this situation. For this you have my complete sympathy and empathy.

but

you didn't have the tools to deal with it because they weren't given to you at home. You weren't protected properly at home and given any ourward coating of resilience.

Are we honestly saying if we taught our children that bullies exist and that they must not be tolerated under any circumstances
Told them to shout about what was going on immediately when it happened
Enlisted the help of their friends mothers and their friends.
Went loudly and often to the school to report it and insist it was immediately addressed. That then we couldn't make a difference???

Joolyjoolyjoo · 30/01/2009 23:42

coward of the county!

Joolyjoolyjoo · 30/01/2009 23:42

yay- I did my first link!!!!

Ronaldinhio · 30/01/2009 23:43

christ jooly!!

Lemontart · 30/01/2009 23:47

I am sorry you had such an awful experience of abuse at the hands of your sister, tw1nkly. However, I do not think you should have hit back - your parents are the ones who should have dealt with it differently, not you.

I do not believe that teaching your children to use violence as a reasonable way to solve problems is right and would rather pull my children out of a failing school than suggest they take the matter into their own hands. I would rather focus on teaching my child to speak up verbally and learn to be strong in other ways (self defense does not need to be physical retaliation - certainly not at a young age). However, I suspect this is just like the smacking debate - I truly detest all physical violence as a means to make a point or win an argument and accept that many disagree. I like to think I am capable of a good deal of empathy but fail miserably when it comes to this topic.

duchesse · 30/01/2009 23:47

I was constantly picked on in my first year of secondary school by a particular girl and her gang. They would push me around, swing me around by my hair, follow me around mocking and swearing at me. Like many of you, I had been taught to "turn the other cheek" and run away rather than fight.

One day, towards the end of a rather unpleasant academic year, she was right i my face, trying to wind me. She wanted me to slap her so she would have an excuse to fight me after school. I tried all the usual ignoring tactics, reasoning, etc...

In the end I saw red and slapped her hard.

She NEVER bothered me again and neither did her buddies, in fact from that moment onwards she seemed to gain respect for me and wanted to be my friend. I had no cultural reference for this, it did not fit with anything I'd been taught. But it worked. So although I teach my children to avoid nasty people, at the back of my mind is the niggling doubt that maybe some people need the message conveyed in a different and slightly more proactive way. And as people have said, we all live in the real world, not a pacific utopia.

Joolyjoolyjoo · 30/01/2009 23:50

Sorry, ronaldinhio, it just came into my head- it's the "you don't have to fight to be a man" bit, I guess!!!

Bizarrely enough, I remember watching Little and Large do a version of it when I was a little girl- my granny loved them!!

petetong · 30/01/2009 23:54

Lemontart I think that most people have said that they first addressed the matter with teachers and have only said to the dcs to deal with it in this way when all other options have been exhausted.

Ronaldinhio · 30/01/2009 23:54

god terrible comedians that poeple used to love
my father loved Jim Davidson too awful

tw1nkley · 30/01/2009 23:55

ronaldinhio, To a degree your last paragraph is true - in that I would hope that all your shouting to everyone, and insistance to the school that it be dealt with should resolve the issue - there is one problem tho' The actual bully isn't likely to be convinced to back off by this.

Everyone else will be in uproar, but the actual bully will see it as a sign of weakness in his victim. IMHO hitting back should be the course of last resort. But it frequently does come to that because the whole bullying thing ulimatley comes down to a child being controlling and being able to do whatever they like to another child because it makes them feel powerful. The power of that child needs to be taken away - I only know of 2 ways if the "tell the teacher route" doesn't work. Hit them back ( if they hit you) or embarrass them - make them want to stay away from you.

Unfortunatley several people on here are saying that the teacher is not doing anything - nor the head. I would go to the childs parent loudly in the playground, if that didn't work I would go to the governors and then the LEA.

If none of that worked then it would be retaliate or embarrass.

Ronaldinhio · 30/01/2009 23:59

Most bullies would be embarassed by a child shouting loudly "why are you hitting me" or "don't hit me" or by their friends shouting the same thing
They gain strength by other's fear and compliance.
Fighting back doesn't need to involve counterviolence and once they realise that they can't feed their own needs from this child they will move on

2shoes · 31/01/2009 00:00

Ronaldinhio doesn't work when they are 15

petetong · 31/01/2009 00:01

Most bullies wouldn't be anywhere where anybody in authority can heart their victim shouting "why are you hitting me". Most bullies are sneaky.

Ronaldinhio · 31/01/2009 00:02

nor does escalating violence can end in very poor results all round as we all know

there is no right answer |I agree but as you can tell I strongly think that trying to stamp it out in early childhood will prevent much of the bullying in teens/adulthood

tw1nkley · 31/01/2009 00:03

In a slightly amusing aside from my point of view and bearing in mind this occured at college not school...

A friend of mine was being given quite a lot of grief from this bloke, he had come up with names to call her based on her name but very derogatory. Told the staff that she was a nympho and basically was ruining her life at college. No-one knows why he picked on her but he did and he wouldn't stop.

On this partcular day the lecturer was v boring and stuffy and only front seats were left - as he walked into the lecture theatre she walked out as she passed him she chucked half a bottle of water on his crotch. He didn't have time to leave and had to sit at the front, naturally he got called up to assist and every student in the lecture theatre had a wonderful view of his "wee stain".

Very childish I know so don't laugh!!

But he never bothered her again.

ok i'm childish I can live with that!!

Joolyjoolyjoo · 31/01/2009 00:03

So honestly, all of you who don't condone violence of any sort: you WOULDN'T fight back against a mugger/ rapist/ random attacker??

Ronaldinhio · 31/01/2009 00:07

jooly, honestly?
I don't know what I's do until I was in the situation but I can see the benefits of being passive in many situations like that

sorry

tiredsville · 31/01/2009 00:07

Sorry Ronald but that is a load of tosh. Teenage bullies in paticular are fearless of the teachers, us as parents and the law.
There are kids stabbing each other out there, do you really think they are going to be embarassed by a child squealing "don't hit me!"

tw1nkley · 31/01/2009 00:08

jooly

Exactly!! That is why i don't think its reasonable for a school to say children must not defend themeselves.

tw1nkley · 31/01/2009 00:11

ok ronald what if someone suddenly tried to attack your child would u defend them then?

Ronaldinhio · 31/01/2009 00:11

I was answering an op about a young child tbh

I don't know what the answers are for older children and young adults but getting them involved or advocating using violence that they are poorly equipped to deal with will end up in a much worse result in my opinion.

I'd probably absent the child from that situation if it couldn't be dealt with by appropriate channels

edam · 31/01/2009 00:12

I was brought up not to hit - don't think I'd actually have a clue how to thump anyone even if I wanted to. At junior school I used to protect other children from bullying, using words to show the bullies up.

Moved house and started at a new high school and suddenly I was the target. Endured two miserable years of being bullied - the teachers knew all about it but did sod-all and I didn't even begin to know how to tell my mother. Thank heavens when she DID find out, she sorted it, and I ended up going to a much nicer school.

Ds is in Yr1. So far, I've told him not to hit back, to tell the teacher, or shout "STOP" as loud as he can. But if he ever comes up against serious, continued bullying, I will be telling him to defend himself.

Actually this thread has reminded me I was going to find him a martial arts class, so he learns how to avoid using violence but also how to protect himself if he ever has to...