To be highly irritated about the Twin thread - school trip fees

[DietDisaster]

I can't understand how people think that having two children close together has a similar financial impact as having twins (or higher multiples) .

As a mum of dearly loved DTs, this makes me annoyed because parents of twins have to buy two lots of baby equipment (double pram, two cots, highchairs, nappies!!) at the same time and as they grow nothing can be passed down. Also have to pay two lots of childcare/nursery fees, when they want to do activities they can only do them if you can afford to pay twice (mine have to do exactly the same things as I'm not having either of them miss out). When they start school, two lots of uniform, coats, shoes not to mention trips, then there's beds, larger car, university fees etc, etc.

At least parents who have kids close together can reuse a lot of stuff and anyway, it is their CHOICE to have them close together, you have no choice over whether you have twins and I don't believe that anyone who decides to get pregnant thinks 'oh, better wait until I'm sure I can afford 2 in case I have twins'. People who have children close together can plan to space out their children if they can't afford it.

Therefore, I think schools should help out parents of twins, triplets etc and they should not have to pay the same as singletons!!

Surely no one can contest that even if you think there are no additional costs (and I think you have to have your children incredibly close together to get no handing down effect at all, even for the first year) the issue of your costs coming up at the same time is relevant? Unless you have children in the same year at school (which must be a very small group, and in this particular case be the same as twins) then things like school trips, uniform costs, university fees (or school fees if you go down that line) are going to have more of an impact if they are not spaced out. Of course that is not to say that all parents of twins will struggle, some may well have pots of money, and of course it is not to say that those without twins find life easy, likewise some will be poor.

I think it is churlish for people who don't have twins to say or imply that it is not an additional burden (I'm sure it is an additional joy too). However I think parents of twins probably need to acknowledge some advantages too, as I do when comparing my position with two close together to (for example) my sisters with two with quite a big gap. No twins in my generation as yet, but I wouldn't dream of comparing my situation to my big sister with two SN children (well not in a oneupmanship type of way anyway).

I am mum to 10 month old twin girls. My experience has been so positive. I might just be lucky but I can honestly say I have not felt that it has been hard work at all. I partially breastfed for almost 6 months, travelled to visit friends/family who live quite far away in all parts of GB.

As for the expense, well, only needed double in terms of nappies, wipes ect on daily basis. Equipment and furniture wise, we have had to double up on high chairs but didn't rush in to having a nursery set up (still in with us) We got a cotbed for them to share and we are just about to get 2nd off Ebay ready for them to go into their own room. Rather than buy more clothes, I just wash every day. I found that they grow out of clothes so quickly so don't need a lot in the first year. I have also been passed on a lot from friends and friends of friends.

I appreciate that everyones experience is different as well as their financial circumstances. However, I would not expect to get reductions on classes, trips, groups etc. My local playgroup is run by SureStart so no charges. I don't go often as its starts early morning and me and the girls are lazy and don't like getting up early or rushing breakfast, however, I have found the playleaders really helpful, taking off/putting on coates,holding them up during group singsong etc as well as the other mums.

Some things can be a pita - getting side-by-side pram around shops but twins are still such a novelty that people seem really eager to help no matter where we are.

IMHO I think it is to do with your mindset. Is it going to double the work or double the fun!

That was a lovely post and has really cheered me up. I was getting a bit worried that twins were all having a miserable existence.

mothers of twins only get one lot of maternty pay to help wth childcare expenses, mothers of singletons, no matter how closely together they're born, get two lots.

it only took me 3 days to think that one up

I don't think maternity pay is there to help with childcare expenses, tbh, just to compensate for loss of pay. It would be a little odd to double the compensation for the same amount of time wouldn't it? I think there is a case to extend more generous benefits to those with premmies (which would include a disproportionate amount of multiple births). Have certainly seen that argued.

I'm the eldest of 4 born a year apart each. I also have triplet friends. I know for a fact that my mum and their mum was having this conversation the other week, about how much they had to pay for when they were little. YES, you do have to pay for stuff 2x or 3x over at the same time, but if you have children who are close together it catches up too. My parents payed for all 4 of us to go to university, and at one point, 3 of us were at uni at the same time.
Paying for stuff for multiples when they are babies in the start is hard yes. but surely when they are older, it is just like paying for things as if they were siblings, close in age? my mum paid for clubs i went to at the same time as my sister did clubs she wanted. And my triplet friends did clubs they wanted, what's the difference there?

they were little meant we were little

I think the difference is that many parents of multiples feel that if the children want to do activities it is unfair unless they all do them, whereas those with more than one singleton might find it easier to say yes to one and not another. Of course there are practical advantages too, in that they will be in the same classes, so have the same pick up time (this has been handy with my close in age two). Kudos to anyone who handles either triplets of four within four years!

whatever I had, the other 3 had to have, and this will apply to my children. so I think that this depends on the family if they find it easier to say yes to one and no to another?
There are things siblings can do too that have the same advantages eg, swimming lessons and dance.

Custardo, the reason I feel so pissed off (to echo your words) is this mother of twins I am talking about brings in more money on her illegal job, escorting kids to school and benefits that my dp does while he is in training in the job he went into a week ago and yet she, and the parents of the other 2 sets of twins in the class are paying for One child instead of two.

I asked the school for assistance and was offered the way out of paying £350 over 4 installments all to be paid by a certain date. At the time dp was out of work and it was impossible, now it would not be much easier either.

I won't say I am pleased these 3 families are getting help/reduced rate because I am not, all 3 sets of parents are working except 1 mum who is on maternity leave atm, Sure half the price of the second child if need be buut don't offer a BOGOF as this is not on IMO.

If i had 2 children in 2 seperate years in school and they were both going on a school trip I am sure I would have to pay for both and not just one...so whats the difference?

My dad was disabled and not working, my mum worked in a school, they had 3 of us to look after, My brother and I being 16m apart in age. They had to pay for every school trip we went on and got no help, My aunt has twins and she had to pay full price for every trip they went on as well so I don't see why now parents of twins can't do the same.

As it is ds1 won't be going on this trip as I can book a family holiday for the same week for less money, ok he won't be going climbing or kayaking but he will be having a good time.

The bigger issue is that everywhere is different and thats what causes issues. I'm sure that if TLE had received some helped she might not be quite so upset. And remember this mum who is cheating her benfits should get her comeuppance as you ahve reported her.

LES that's an issue about your school, and this particular mother, who happens to have twins. Not about all parents of twins surely? There are plenty of parents of twins on both threads who have said their schools never offered assistance, nor would they ask. If it is offered I don't see that anyone would say no though.

Lovely post, Magda

I agree that getting about with a side-by-side pram/pushchair can be a bit difficult. I used one with my children(not twins).

Nooka the issue is about the 3 sets of twins or rather their parents being given assistance and those singletons not being given the same assistance.

If financial assistance is going to be available in schools, then surely it should be available for anyone experiencing financial difficulties and not be dependant on whether you have twins, a child in every school year or whatever.

custardo "raffles, gardening days, buy a cake, sponsor a teacher, your twins are walking round the football field 10 time - sponsor them, school fete SUMMER - donations, Winter Donations Autumn Donations

st josephs penny for the poor

can we have money for milk and biscuits mum - to raise funds for xxxx

if you think about what a child asks you for at junior school - then multiply it"

How is this different for parents with multiple children in different school years?

As regards the trip situation, would it be possible for schools to notify parents of expensive trips coming up the year before the year the trip takes place? Then anyone with 2 in the same year could budget earlier.

Agree with juuule.

If you look at the twin situation on its own, you might say I would churlish to baulk at discounts and reductions for twins. But having twins is no certainty you will struggle financially, nor is not having twins a guarantee you will breeze through. Same can be said for parents of closely spaced children, premmies, children with SN.

Why should twins (or other multiple births) be afforded this exalted position? If my school gave discounts for twins, I would expect the same discount for all other situations that are likely to cause financial hardship.

In fact, why not just make actual, rather than presumed, financial difficulty the test. Problem solved.

Hi Juule,

its not.

Some of those costs may hit a mum of multiples ( i have a singleton and twins) and those without.

Considering how costly it can be therefore i don't understand why you wouldn't want to cut a mum with twins a little slack.

Of course the decision should depend on finances - but i have to say, that dh and i were both working not entitled to benefits and i couldn't afford spare money for them BOTH to see hms belfast

so neither went.

evenstar,
i understand you are angry at a benefit cheater who gets more money than you, which i think clouds the issue as a whole

however you say

"i had 2 children in 2 seperate years in school and they were both going on a school trip I am sure I would have to pay for both and not just one...so whats the difference?"

i would say none at all,

but IME ( it could be different for you) school trips were based on the year.

this answers JUules suggestion too, as i knew for some of the larger things that in year X my children would be going to the isle of wight at a substantial cost each.

.....on top of everything else that a school asks us all for in a year.

However i do take on Juules point about means testing, becuase of course it doesn't make you automatically poor becuase you have twins.

however i fail to see, how some posters fail to see how having twins is just more costly.

Can't work out which is more costly (twins or two close together) but why on earth would the school take money from other parents to pay for yours because of it?

That's what it means. There is no magic money source. If you have twins you want other mums to be forced to pay more to pay for your twins.

If your car suddenly needs a new engine that's a big expense too, but I'm pretty sure the school won't take that into account. Nor will tescos if you ask for a discount.

yes onager you are correct, and thats the rub really isn't it.

i would like to think that i wouldn't begrudge paying an extra 50p or £1 ( £35 would cover most trips i guestimate)

others do.

thats where we differ

This still kicking off??

Twins might be more expensive than two close together, but 3 close together is probably more expensive than twins. 4 would be even more expensive. A SN child would be even more expensive.

Some people get a lot of things given to them by friends, others have to buy everything from scratch. Some people have access to a good state school, others choose to go private.

Some people live in London, so housing is more expensive, others live elsewhere, and housing can be cheaper.

Some people have access to good child care, others don't and so have to go private, either nanny or child minder, others are fortunate enough to have family that can offer occasional child care for a night out while some people always have to hire a babysitter if they want an evening out.

It's all relative, isn't it????

What gets everyone annoyed is the feeling of 'entitlement' - I have twins, therefore I demand a discount. WTF????

Discounts and assistance should be given on a needs basis - regardless of of how many children, and whether they are born many years apart, less than a year apart, or at the same time.

So, again, deal with what you have. If you have a REAL need, then you can approach for assistance JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

Oh and as a side note some of the reason there are more twins being born is also a result of women taking folate when they are trying to conceive.

Good post Madmarg

Even if kids are in different school yeras you have to pay for things plus clothes, shoes (big expense) so twins are no different imho. If you have 2+ kids you need two of things or different items like having a baby car seat & a toddler seat. The only thing in the beginning you need more nappies & that's it.

lol at its a choice to have a close age gap. No not always. If I provide proof to the school it was not a choice will I get help two

Just thought I would chip in lol. Haven't read all of the thread so sorry if I repeat what others have said.

I have 6yr old triplets,which I didn't plan for or have IVF treatment,although there was some 'tweaking' that caused a multiple pregnancy
I had the choice to go for a reduction at the very beginning,but although I knew it was going to be tough and sacrifices were going to have to be made it was my choice,or as people told me 'on your head be it!!!'

Yes,there are some things that I can't afford for my children,especially as I am now a single mum,but I manage.
I understand that school trips are priced per child and as I have three thats what I expect to pay
School dinners are per child so I either pay up £27 a week (when working) or they have packed lunch.
Yes its hard buying three of everything at school,but I tend to buy ahead when I see BOGOF or two for the price of one.

I tell my kids honestly how I have to work out things money wise and they understand if one of them gets treated one week,the other two have to wait until the following weeks.
If I buy new school shoes I take one of them in one week and the rest follow as soon as I can afford it.
If a trip is too expensive I explain that I can't afford it,or if I know other trips are coming up I let them take turns.

isn't a big deal to us,as it teaches my kids to be patient and tolerant.They know they can't get what they want,when they want and thats a good lesson to learn.
At Xmas they all said if mummy can afford it please can I have.....
They know when we are out shopping if I say we can't buy they today,we don't by it and they are happy with that.

I seriously don't have a lot of money and my children aren't angels,but its mostly about managing what money you do have,searching for offers,not being embarrased to accept second hand clothes and getting on with it.
We can't afford a car or holidays,but we still have fun and enjoy stuff.

Such a shame to argue about who has the most expensive children or who has the hardest time,when as mums we should be supporting each other and being understanding that everyones situation is different. Its tough for us all!!!!!