In reacting like this to future FIL saying he wont come to our wedding?

[MesaLoca]

I've told DP that I wont be going to visit his parents at xmas because I am so insulted and upset at DP's dad recently telling him that he doesn't think he can bring himself to come to our wedding as he doesn't consider it 'proper' and thinks DP is 'selling himself short' (this is all to do with religion). DP thinks I am being unreasonable in not going.

Me and DP have lived together 5 years. DD is 2, wedding is in May.

I have a short temper and know if I go at xmas I will end up in a row about this. They live 3 hours away so I can't just leave if it all blows up. I know I cannot go along and pretend everything is ok, I just am not that kind of even-tempered person.

I am gutted. How dare he do this, we were so looking forward to getting married

But what I dont actually get, is why it would matter to marry religiously in a religion you dont believe in. If I was an atheist, I might as well marry Hindu style if my husband to be was Indian, it would mean nothing to me either way.

So why not marry Catholic?
For sure it will mean a heck lot more to the Catholic that he wont get to marry in his belief, ie his religious feeling is not respected, than to you, as an atheist?

And if it matters so much to you, maybe you should rethink the whole marriage thingy. NOthing good can come out of it if the two people involved turn religion/ lack of religion into a battle ground before it even starts.

Go marry an atheist.

But thats the point QueenTinsel - her DP IS an atheist - its FIL who is saying he wont come to a civil ceremony. Bride and groom dont want it!! Crazy IMHO. Id go and visit - and if it comes up in convo, just say - we are atheists, so we dont want to marry in church, the church doesnt want to marry us - we would love you to be present, but you do what you must. BAll is firmly in FIL's court and its him that will be the baddie if he doesnt show up. Which he will.

QueenTinselShadow - 'Atheist' doesn't actually mean 'Whatever, do your mumbo-jumbo round me, I'll wear the frock & smile prettily for the pictures'

It quite often means: 'I have thought long & hard about this, & come to a conclusion. I can't take vows which I don't agree with'

Dh is a Buddhist - the question of our marrying by Buddhist rites was quickly dismissed - I don't practice that faith, so my insincre participation in a Buddhist marriage ceremony would've been utterly meaningless & devalued the whole thing for dh.

I think all parties are being unreasonable.

You will all have to come to some middle ground or this relationship is going to come under enormous strain.

I really think you should have a sensible discussion with DH and if he can not convey it to his parents then why not write a letter?

Explain that you respect their rites but not share the belief in your heart. Would they rather you fake it for the sake of appearances or would they prefer their grand daughter be raised by a woman with honesty in heart? What sort of example do they want you to project?

Tbh I think not going to christmas when it's such an important thing for them is a very strong statement that you will not try to compromise at all.
You have to participate in a few rituals ( be it as an observer - just hang about for festive food, no need to go to midnight mass). This is what families do together.

Tell you father in Law how deeply hurt your DH would be not to see his father at his wedding. Just tell him bluntly that you and him have to find a way to make things work.

What's going to happen when they start preaching to DD when she is older?
It's her grand parents and her dad IS sympathetic so will you object?
These are the more important issues that you have to consider and discuss with DH. NOW.

I see it as quite simple, people will keep assuming that she is marrying a Catholic, he isn't a Catholic. They are two people, BOTH without religious beliefs who want a civil marriage. They are not giving their DD a Catholic upbringing and have no intention of doing so. They have only one problem, DP was brought up (when he was too young to exercise choice)as a Catholic and his father can't accept that he isn't a clone of him and, horror of horrors, he has left the church!
I assume that this man is getting near to retirement age, he is the Head of a school and yet people are walking on eggshells trying not to upset him! There is no compromise-I wouldn't make public promises that I didn't mean. It is like being a Godparent, you stand up in church and say 'I believe in God' which ruled out a lot of people, yet on here the assumption seems to be that it isn't important you can make a statement that is blatantly untrue!!
FIL wants a church wedding, the couple can't do it. Someone needs to get through to the man.
I couldn't go through a Jewish ceremony on the understanding it is all mumbo jumbo to me so it doesn't matter!!! It would be insulting to those of the Jewish faith.

Talking of ignorant, you might want to check the original use of X in this context:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas

It's ridiculous to say FIL is being reasonable because the OP's wedding somehow doesn't exist in his eyes.

The FIL doesn't exist in a vacuum. He knows perfectly well that millions of people celebrate their marriage according to different rites. And millions of Catholics attend civil/Hindu/Muslim/Sikh/whatever weddings every day. He's just being a spiteful bully, lashing out at his own son for daring to make adult decisions about his own life.

FWIW my grandmother was a pillar of the Catholic church, Madam Chairman (definitely 'man') of the Mother's Union and would never have DREAMT of refusing to attend a non-Catholic wedding. She would have, quite rightly, seen it as bloody rude!

"..I am very insulted by your use of the term xian... ...I've never come across it before..."

Priceless

Loving the instant offence taken at something you've never heard of or which yet has to be put in to context, joyless indeed...

There are a lot of different points in this thread but a quick reply to the OP.

I don't think YABU to be insulted and upset by the comment that was made to your DH and I don't think YABU to feel a gut reaction not to go at christmas but I do think YABU to not appreciate that he has a point of view and that this may be hard for him aswell and I do think you will regret it long term if you let it escalate into a row.

We had a very low key marriage in a mosque with my muslim PILs (who wanted us to do it the indian way with lots of fuss), my husbands catholic extended family (who still wish he was catholic)and my nominally christian but mostly agnostic parents and grandparents (who did their best 'not to mention the war' in the very best faulty towers style). We did what we wanted and stuck to that with a few compromises on things that were less important to us. We stood our ground but several family members tried a bit of posturing before hand about not going. It was hard for all of them to accept that we were not doing thing the way they did and hard for us to understand why they thought they would have any input - a generational and clutural thing I guess. In the end they all came and all actually had a good time.

As a few people have suggested. Go and enjoy christmas. Don't mention it unless he does as he may have changed his mind by now and the more you push the point the harder it will be for him to back down. Whatever happens a row or avoiding him will not lead him to a change of heart and playing it cool might not only do that but will cause less upset to your DH, your DD and in the long term you. Good luck

abbierhodes on Wed 17-Dec-08 21:54:04
"Acynonix, I am very insulted by your use of the term xian."

Xian is a perfectly legitimate medieval abbreviation. Used by saints in their day. Absolutely nothing dismissive (of for that matter modern) about it.

St Bernard used it for one. As did St Peter Damian, Thomas Becket etc etc. I don't suppose this implies that they felt negatively towards their religion.

They also abbreviated Christ (as Xs), The Lord (as Dns) etc.

If you are insulted, I am afraid you are just betraying your ignorance of the early church.

gentle giggle at the thought of St Bernard displaying his commercialist leanings. If only...

As for the OP, I would do what others have suggested and still try to be loving and kind at Christmas. For the sake of your dp and for the sake of your child.

My mum and her MIL fell out very early in their relationship, my dad failed to stand up to either, bitterness still there 25 years later - and I HATED it! Because these people were both my flesh and blood- however little they might mean to each other. Not denying that my Gran said some pretty inexcusable things- but that didn't make life easier for me.

See Raven's post on Weds at 10.40.

Why do you want him there?

He will RUIN your wedding day because he will tut through the vows and make his feelings known most thoroughly in a reedy, piping voice, I bet.

Go and see him at Xmas and tell him that you are very grateful to him for being big enough to stay at home.

And watch him squirm with "eh, wassat?" win/win

surely both parties are being just as reasonable/unreasonable as each other. both are sticking strongly to their beliefs and neither are backing down.

i'm sorry that i've only skimmed the thread as it has grown so much so would be glad of clarification.
the op seems to be the only one who is letting the religious aspect bleed into other segments of their life by refusing to visit at christmas.
the FIL is still happy to have her in his home at christmas and has voiced his objections to their religious choices, but has not given ultimatums or tried to ostracise her. (or have i gotten this totally wrong)
so in essence we have 2 atheists marrying ina civil ceremony. they refuse to be forced into having a religious ceremony which is completely their right as it goes completely against their beliefs and feel it would be hypocritical.
a FIl who is heavily religious voicing his opinions on non-religious marraige and stating he doesn't feel it right to attend as it goes against his beliefs and he would be a hypocrite. however the op is now exerting controlling behaviour by causing a family rift and refusing to spend christmas if the father will not attend a ceremony which he does not fundamentally agree with.

surely the best thing would be to agree there is a difference of opinion over the wedding and that it is a no-go area. the father will not be attending as it goes against his beliefs.the couple will not have a religious ceremony as it goes against there beliefs. but in all other aspects of life they can be a loving caring family.

Wow, this has moved on since i was last here!

Thank you all for your input, your points of view aided me greatly when I had a natter with DP about it all last night.

The upshot is that I will be going to visit them and I will bite my tongue and smile and avoid all upset seeing as it is Xmas. However, DP and I both agree that we do not want FIL's threats hanging over our wedding. We want the wedding to be about us and DD. The wedding will not be a religious one as neither of us are believers, if this is upsetting for FIL then so be it, we will be getting married in a civil ceremony. I respect his views but am pissed off that he goes to other relatives' weddings in hotels and not ours.

We are considering 2 options:

Carry on planning for our wedding in May and ignore all threats (this brings the risk of an upset DP on the day though).

Cancel our wedding and elope just the 3 of us(this will upset my family a bit although they will understand our reasons and it will lose our wedding deposit).

We have decided to mull it over for a couple of days... any thoughts?

I would go, exploding may just clear the air and if you proper went off on one you could give him a few own truths about being a good christian and the state of his own family.

I would love to MadameC! I was daydreaming about doing just that this morning while I was in the supermarket. There is so much I would love to say but unfortunately we will be in his house with his massive family 3 hours from our house. DP would be so annoyed with me and FIL would probably collapse - he can't argue back you see, he just gets upset so it always looks like an attack rather than an argument.

you can still get married without your DPs father being there on your big day. i don't speak to my FIL (been married two years to my DH now!) and I couldn't care less if i never saw him again (long story). life goes on, see how things are nearer the time.

"He may feel it is hypocritical of him to attend his own son's, but all he has to do is be there and silently disapprove. He doesn't need to make the damn vows. No one's asking HIM to get married."

no but they are asking him to attend a ceremony involving his son that he does not believe in. as i said earlier i didn't get through the whole of the thread, but in respect of the wedding alone i really can't see how the father is unreasonable in refusing to attend the ceremony when he doesn't agree with it. as far as i can tell he hasn't said he will ostracise his son or DIL if they go against his beliefs.simply that he will not attend that particular event in their life as it goes against it. in fact i feel the op is guilty of doing exactly what she is accusing the FIL of doing. i.e. trying to force him to do something he doesn't want through earlier (now admittedly resolved) threats of not attending christmas, and emotional blackmail by going on about how upset it will make his son. if this behaviour was reversed and it was the FIL saying if you get married in a non-religious ceremony i will be deeply upset and i will not be visiting you at christmas everyone would be up in arms and rightly so.they would say it's your life and your beliefs do not be bullied into doing something you fundamentally don't agree with. so i believe that the same respect should be afforded to the father. if he doesn't want to attend on religious grounds that is his right and i think standing there just for the sake of it when he is clearly unhappy with what is going on around him would be of no benefit to anyone and would be just as bad as forcing someone to have their wedding in a church they don't believe in.
if he has decided that it is against his religious beliefs so be it. don't pander to him,don't change your plans.explain to him what is happening and that he is welcome to come if he wants.but his principles are just as valid as the op's and he should not have to go against them just as the op should not have to go against hers.

good for you for going; very grown up and shows your FIL for what he is.

Also of course you carry on and plan for your may wedding; it's not for you to change anything to avoid your DP being upset on the day; that's in the hands of his dad!