AIBU to think that teenage mums should be given a break.

[Daisy15]

People are forever ranting on at me for having dd too young as if i don't already know it. Just wish i could shut them up ... any suggestions on how to do that?

Thanks

I have not judged at all about the age issue - some teenagers are very mature. Daisy might well be one of them. It's the cost to society which is more problematic.

Daisy can I ask why you don't receive any help from the discretionary support fund at your 6th form or care to learn or don't you have any childcare/travel costs?

but there are many many groups of people who have a high cost to society.

Needmorecoffee, you said the following:

Moondog 'Putting good (or bad)events down to luck perpetuates the myth that we are victimes of circumstance with no personal responsibility.'

well, the fact dd suffered lack of oxygen and left severely brain damaged and thus led to us going on benefits is down to bad luck pure and simple. sheesh. I can't believe you said that.

As Quattrocento said, the benefit system should exist for people like you and I'm very glad it does. What happened to your dd was out of your control-getting pregnant at 14/15 is not.Two very different cases.

Besides which, as you well know, I offer you unfailing support on every SN thread i see you on, and have always gone our of my way to supply you with information that might be of benefit to you.

But Quattro, what's the cost if she's living on EMA (which she gets for being at school, set amount all kids of parents below a certain wage get) and the standard child benefits? She's not claiming benefits for being a parent.

moondog - can i ask how old you were when you had sex? imo it is not wrong for a 15 year old to have sex if they have are in a loving relationship.

I had sex at 16..... but I went on the pill first.

I went to a private school and almost all the girls were sexually active by 16 - but there were NO babies in my cohort, basically because those that got unlucky and got pregnant had terminations.

Women with aspirations and a realistic chance to fulfil them tend not to have babies before they're in a stable relationship and before they've completed their education.

I know 2 mums who had their first babies at 16. One has 3 children, the other has 4. Both have to parent these children on their own because typically, the dads buggered off. They have no money and they have sh*t lives. At the same time they're a ridiculous drain on the public purse. Despite the fact that these mums are basically decent, loving people they simply are not up to raising that many children alone and in poverty and making a good job of it. It's a rare woman who can do it and make it work well (I know a few - but they are exceptional women with bags of energy and determination. Most of us aren't like this, I know I'm not). Both these families get lots of support from grandparents, but I feel that in both cases the children aren't going to meet their potential at school or in life generally, because their mums simply aren't equipped socially, educationally or financially to give them the support they need in life.

I can't understand why, when girls have a first baby at 15 or 16, they aren't given intensive support from a midwife or hv who has expertise in family planning. These women have just sleep-walked into parenthood - it really shouldn't be allowed to happen.

Am really shocked at some of your opinions.

Because you can't tar everyone over the same brush....so, to those harsh people would you prefer a teenage mum dropping out and do minimal wage jobs for a large if not all her life and therefor contribute less if aqny in taxes in the longterm, or would you prefer a tenagemum to keep in education and fullfil her potential and become potentially a high flyer and pay lots in taxes...

the whole teenagemum thing really is far more complicated then just raising yor child to be better or them being scum raised from scum....and yes the problem has to be addressed...but in the end itwould be the Babies that suffer the most....if people had their way and not support a person because they happen to be single and teenagemums...

I am a young mum, 18 when I had my ds, 20 with de and at 21 am pregnant again. I have been married for 3 years in feb (dh is in the progress of joining the RAF if anyones interested).

Now what really annoys me is when I see mums both young and old smoking whilst pushing their prams and i think my taxes will go toward their and their childs health care because of it.

People driving with kids in the car chatting on their phones have the same effect on me.

However young mums who love their kids and want to make a better life for them by studying etc and have the rest of their lives to pay whatever help they have had back do not make me think what a waste of taxes.

Taking the emotion out of this; Mumsnet is self selecting. There were always going to be a a high proportion of ex-teenage mothers who have achieved much and made a success of their experience in all the conventional senses.

However, all evidence (I can quote verbatim if needs be), points towards the fact that the vast majority of very young mothers in the UK are from deprived backgrounds (economically and educationally), and their struggle is perpetuated through the generations. These are the families that struggle to work, to get out of the benefits trap, to avoid the lure of crime. Teenage motherhood should be discouraged.

I too would be defensive if I had had a child when I was very young, and would want to tell my story, but it just can't be denied that the overwhelming evidence is that it is not good for the individual or society. Of course, most sensible people want to support those that need it but this has become a dangerous epidemic in the UK and the cause of many social difficulties.

To continue supporting this situation is exceedingly expensive for the state, and in fact, can't last. Something has to give.

No-one would want to return to a state of shame, but there is a middle ground between shame and costly approbation.

What 15 year old says 'freaking'?

troll or not there is an important debate to be had.

The percentage of young girls getting pregnant is fairly equal across the board.

The number of girls that chose to carry on with their pregancy varies massively across the class system in this country.

And which is right and which is wrong is another huge debate.

Taking the emotion out, mumsnet is self selecting. There were always going to be some ispirational stories from ex-teenage mums on here who have made a 'conventional' success of their experience.

However, the overwhelming evidence is that we have an expensive epidemic on our hands in the UK, with the highest rate of single young mothers, the overwhelming majority of whom survive on benefits, will continue to survive on benfits and will bring children up who stay in the poverty trap. I can quote verbatim if needed.

I understand that people are defensive of their own, successful experiences, or that of their own mother, but it is foolish to think that we can go on providing a bottomless pit of support, or that to tacitly encourage teenage motherhood is a good thing. No-one would want to return to a state of shame, but there is a a significant moral and sociological space to occupy between that and Polly-Annaish approbation.

And what 15 year old says 'freaking'?

OoooopS!!!!!
Thought the first one hadn't gone-same but different post.......sorry....interweb playing up chez Prince

Sorry to be dim but i had been wondering what happened to "Ethan Christopher" as she used to post loads and now doesnt seem to-not trying to stir anything up im just geuinely curious as to what happened?

Nappyaddict, you can ask but I won't tell you. I don't discuss my sex life on MN.
What on earth does a 15 year old know about a 'loving (sexual) relationship'???

EthanChristopher was a pseudonym used by the mum purporting to be a teen mum.grade A loon

moondog some teenagers do. i have 2 friends - one 24, one 27 and they have both been with their dps since they were 13. the one who is 27 had an unplanned pregnancy at 15 followed by 4 planned pregnancies.

Thankyou ScottishMummy

Mondog do you ever read your posts back to see how you actally sound? Because I hate to break this to you but you sound like a judgemental, simplistic, unfeeling horror.

Yes you have an opinion, but this is (I thought) supposed to be a support network of mothers, and I am disgusted at the way you (and some others) have talked to Daisy

I think someone else has some growing up to do to.........

Of course some teenagers do-but they are really the exception; and laws and sense and wisdom are not, thankfully, based on the exceptions.

It is absolutely paramount that we protect our young women, and young men from thinking it is a good option. We don't really have any choice. We simply can't keep supporting it economically or sociologically; it is is creating a suffering underclass and leeching away money and resources from other areas.

19 in the internationally recognised most sensible earliest age for a first child-not 15-for very good reasn.

You don't have to break anything to me Crack.
MN exists for people to say what they think.
I think it is ridiculous to condone children having children and for this to be both condoned and supported financially by the taxpayer.

glad you have never mada any mistakes moondog

I've made plenty.
I just don't expect other people to dig me out of a hole of my owm making.

This is where all these discussions fall down, and crumble into a non-discussion. It is not a 'those without sin casting the first stone' issue. Of course we all make mistakes.

Getting a parking ticket is a mistake; not a serious one. Stabbing someone in the midst of a heated row is a mistake; but serious one and life changing.

All sort of pointless suppositions. This is not about human error and human nature and it is highly misleading to pretend it is. This is about sensible decisions for our society and for our younger, less wordly, less experienced, less wise members of our community. Would anyone who had a child at fifteen want the same for their son or daughter? I doubt it.