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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel a bit icky about this? What would you do?

199 replies

mindalina · 08/12/2008 08:35

I've got a friend who occasionally babysits for me. He's an old friend of DP's who I've also known for around four or five years now. I trust him completely with DS - DS adores him, it's really sweet.

But.

On Saturday I closed a tab in firefox by accident and couldn't find again, so I went rummaging in my history and was shocked to find a couple of links to a porn site in my history! I thought maybe it was DP one evening, so I checked the time and date, and it was the other Thursday afternoon when I popped into to work for an hour, and my friend watched DS.

Now I'm not offended by porn in itself (I do understand there are exploitation issues etc, but they aren't really my main concern atm), nor am I even particularly bothered by the fact he accessed porn on my computer when I wasn't there. I am however concerned about DS being exposed to pornography at the tender age of 23 months. I know DS wasn't napping, because he has morning naps most of the time.

What would you do? I can hardly bear to bring it up with my friend ("So, the porn you watched the other day on my pc, any good? Good, now don't ever watch it again when DS around please" eww no) but equally I now don't feel entirely comfortable leaving him with DS iyswim. Surely it's kind of obvious that you don't watch porn around a toddler? I don't really know what to do about it. It would harshly suck to lose my only babysitter, but I'm not comfortable with this. It's possible DS was playing in his room so couldn't see anything, but I don't know...

help me please!

OP posts:
CrushWithEyeliner · 09/12/2008 12:00

Min does it really matter why you need him to babysit? Wether it is for a great night out or work purposes this guy just isn't good babysitting material.

I am sorry if you feel negatively judged here but I think what people are surprised about is your reluctance to simply write him off as your childcare and findd another arrangement (did you see my suggestion about nanny agencies?).

I am not suggesting he get a public garotting, but please don't assume that because your DS is happy to see this man everything is alright. It is not alright at all.

Original poster
mindalina · 09/12/2008 12:06

There's no way I can afford to pay a babysitter. Just not gonna happen. Of course I'm reluctant to write off my ONLY babysitter, wouldn't most people be? THe point is, I've not caught him looking at child porn or fiddling with my child. Believe you me if I had I'd be shouting it from the fucking rooftops and I'd not be posting here about it, cos there wouldn't be a dilemma in the slightest, but that's not teh case here, is it?

OP posts:
Original poster
mindalina · 09/12/2008 12:08

And to me yeah it does matter why I need a babysitter, cos if he hadn't been around to babysit the fateful day he watched Heather take a sperm shower (please excuse me while I vomit, apologies for potential tmi), then I wouldn't have a job now.

OP posts:
claw3 · 09/12/2008 12:13

Mindalina - What is your dilemma then?

You think the guy is a good sort and dont think your child is a risk. Just put a password on the computer?

pushki · 09/12/2008 12:21

Mindalina - realise you're feeling a bit judged by everyone and I'm sure most people here are well meaning in their comments. I have only just read this thread and my honest opinion is that of many others - that I feel it is totally inappropriate and also inexcusable if he looked at porn while he was babysitting. I can completely understand why you are trying to reason it out, but some of it does come across as if you are trying to make his own excuses for him. At the end of the day, until you either confront him about it - and that way let hime come up with his reasons (you shouldn't be having to reason his behaviour for him on here)and see what happens.

If he denies it - tell him that you found it on your history, if he tries to cover it up in anyway be suspicious. If he is a 'good' friend he should feel ok at admitting it - after all he felt he was a good enough friend to use your computer.

Please take the advice also of ringing some agencies such as NSPCC - you can talk anonymously but at least that way your getting a professional opinion of what to do - not just us opinionated MNetters!

claw3 · 09/12/2008 12:26

By asking 'am i being unreasonable' you are asking for your opinion to be judged by others IMO.

IfYouDidntLaughYoudCry · 09/12/2008 12:32

Definitely ask him about it. It doesn't have to be confrontational, just say that you were looking for the address of a site you'd been on and it came up. Make it clear you're not impressed and see what his reaction is. I think this will play on your mind, though, whatever he says.

puddytats · 09/12/2008 12:35

I think it is very sad that people are so willing to judge every man because of a minority. Yes looking at porn while with a child was wrong, no one is disputing that. But from what i can see Mindalina is behaving in a very responnsible way. Not immediatly jumping to the worst conclusion, but not ignoring the matter either.
I personally would just ask him to be aware of what he is looking at while babysitting and keep an eye on the situation. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Back off to lurk now

SammyK · 09/12/2008 12:40

OP are you familiar with the term grooming?

I do think you should talk this through with someone, this is your child, why take the risk?? Your ds could still see the man under your supervision but I wouldn't leave him alone with him again.

claw3 · 09/12/2008 12:42

Its really simply you either trust him 100% and let him look after your child or you dont.

Original poster
mindalina · 09/12/2008 12:48

I understand I am asking for other people's opinions and judgements of the situation, or else why would I post? But I am getting annoyed by people telling me I'm putting my son at risk when I've repeatedly stated he won't be babysitting again until I am comfortable with it, which I am not at all at this point.

Yes I know what grooming is. I do understand the potential dangers here, this is why I am in such a state about it! If I were naive to the possibilities, I would be blithely carrying on having him babysit, no? But I'm not, I'm trying to sort this out in my head iyswim, so I know whether I'm happy to have him babysit or not. At the moment I'm not - I have said that again and again.

Can anyone tell me who the relevant people to talk to would be? Preferably anonymous - I really am reluctant to have this man tagged as some sort of sex offender when there really is no evidence for that at this point.

OP posts:
Lotster · 09/12/2008 12:52

Hi again Mindalina, I also think you seem to have a sensible head on you. You will always get a mixture of balanced and extreme views on here, but only you know your circumstances.

Calling a man a pervert because they like porn is ridiculous IMO. Some of the nicest, most decent men look at it, because it's what men do. What was not right here, is that he was babysitting, for an hour, it wasn't neccessary or appropriate...
Now as someone alluded to earlier, he could have got a text or and email - "cor, check out this one, she's fit" or whatever.
He should have waited, but he's NOT a parent, he doesn't think like one, he thinks like a young man, and he IS young. Those who say "well he's not 14" - 14 is a child, 23 is still a young man. No offence to mums on here his age (or younger) but you are obviously as parents more likely to be more mature at that age, having kids does that, it changes you and makes you think more about what is, and isn't appropriate.

My nephew is 23 and whilst he is a loving and helpful brother to his sibs, he's still a somewhere between a kid and a man to me.
It is not beyond the realms of possibility that he might take a sneaky pic at a naughty picture on the phone or computer whilst sitting his sibs. I'm pretty sure he'd make it quick so no-one saw - which is what this bloke seems to have done. It's also outrageous to suggest that as soon as a man sees a sexy pic he starts whacking off!! How would any of them get their NUTS magazine home without getting arrested if this was the case??
I also think a pervert would be used to deleting their browsing history and covering their tracks. And more likely, not be looking at grown women, which TBH seems perfectly healthy (again, when done in his own time obviously).

When you are "old enough to know better", it means you've learnt from mistakes. I think you should tell him what you now, so he can explain, and learn from it.
Whilst I find a lot of posts on here way OTT, you do have a responsibility to your son to follow things up if it's set the slightest alarm bell ringing. It would be a shame to let this fester between you and your friend without giving him a chance to explain. You partner should probably do it, because he's more likely to look flustered and guilty if a woman embarrasses him with this info anyway.

People do make mistakes, and it sounds like he is a kind friend who did something misguided, but you should be sure. You have to be stronger and braver for your kids than you would be for yourself.

pamelat · 09/12/2008 12:52

How odd. Why would he want to look at porn whilst your DS is there. Its hardly the right frame of mind .... ?

I would get DP to say something and make out that you don't know. I am a coward!

SammyK · 09/12/2008 12:54

Sorry mindalina, I didn't mean for you to feel patronised, I think you know you won't go back to being comfortable enough with him to allow him to babysit again.

I would give nspcc a ring, they are trained and confidential, and should be able to help you? Have a look on their website for a phone number.

I cna understand that it is an uncomfortable issue to get yr head around.

pamelat · 09/12/2008 12:55

sorry posted and realised that the thread has moved on ....

thenewme · 09/12/2008 12:56

mindalina

I was abused by my foster father and I guess he liked me. I hear what you are saying about just becasue they like each other doesn't mean it is innocent, nor does him watching porn mean anything sinister is going on.

I think you are right to not have him sit with your child again but I do think you need to talk to him about it. Your DP needs to get with you too.

claw3 · 09/12/2008 12:57

It really is black and white, dont leave your child with anyone who you do not trust 100%, there is no grey area!

GreenGables · 09/12/2008 13:08

Mindalina: That you felt the need to ask for help suggests to me that KNOW he is unsuitable as a child-minder. I suspect (from my own experience) that because of your past you know that your reaction to this could be overly biased towards an extreme reaction, and so you are trying to right the balance towards a more neutral stand point. The fact is that most of us who were abused as children or adults will have subdued understanding of the horrors, it is the only way our brains can live with the memory - to make it of less importance. So where you are concerned that you may be over-reacting, you actually have to over emphasise your reaction to it.

I have had several encounters with varying degrees of 'inappropriate' behaviour, throughout my life, most recently with a weirdy stalker who I had thought was a very good friend of mine, and whoes company I really enjoyed. Your phrase: ''I really don't think he's a bad person, or a paedophile, or anything like that.'' echoes my sentiments towards this weirdy man when I first became uneasy about his behaviour. Just be aware that you may be down-playing it (sub-consciously) because to face the real consequences of it are too great.

If you were really sure that it was just a misjudgment you wouldn't have been concerned about it. If you invited the homeless man from down the street in for a warm cup of coffee and he accessed porn in front of your DS would you be so understanding or forgiving?

It's not a normal misjudgment, particularly as he has internet at home. He chose to access it in your home, whilst your DS was around... Do you think child abusers suddenly decide to rape a child one day? No, it starts bit by bit, gradually pushing the boundaries to see how much they can get away with - until somebody stops them. Your DP's friend may not become a child abuser, but he is certainly pushing the boundaries.

And I think that at 23 he should have a very clear understanding that accessing porn in somebody else's home AND in the vicinity of children is wrong. If you really don't think he should/could then you shouldn't allow him near your DS unsupervised.

I am sorry if I am adding to your feeling judged, but I want to reach out to you.

claw3 · 09/12/2008 13:08

Sorry but im not getting what the dilema is?

Your dithering about whether to let him babysit again one minute, then wanting to talk to someone about abuse the next?

mamaberta · 09/12/2008 13:11

Look, it just isn't right to be looking at porn while looking after someone else's child (or your own for that matter IYSWIM) I would take this as a big fat warning. I am not accusing your friend of anything but I would not let such a person look after my kids for five minutes.

It is the "nice family friends" who often pose a greater risk to children than the strangers-in-mucky-vans stereotype so feverishly peddled by the media. I am a CSA survivor and so is DH. In both cases the perpetrators were well known to our (very naive but good-hearted) parents.

I want to be really clear here, I am not accusing this man of child abuse and nor should you. But I would not allow any further unsupervised contact with your DS. Explain your motivations and be prepared for all sorts of excuses. I hate the "all men under suspicion" approach but this man has done something wholly inappropriate (at the very least your DS could have seen the sites). There have to be consequences.

Original poster
mindalina · 09/12/2008 13:12

Lotster - I myself am 22! I did make the point earlier in the thread that there are so many things I now, as a parent, see as completely unacceptable whereas before having DS I would have wondered what's the fuss about.

I think I will give the NSPCC a call tomorrow and see what they have to say. I still lean towards the idea that he is a misguided berk tbh, rather than a paedophile, but there would need to be no doubt whatsoever for me to have him babysit again.

OP posts:
poshwellies · 09/12/2008 13:13

Excellent post mamaberta-couldn't agree more.

pamelat · 09/12/2008 13:14

I am sure that it was "innocent" (in terms of anything sinister) BUT how sure is sure???? 99%? Even that 1% would mean that I would never leave my children alone with him ever again.

Lotster · 09/12/2008 13:19

Mindalina, there you go - my sis was a mum at 20 and way more grown up than her son is now at 23.

Think us women can find meaning in the way a man sniffs sometimes (!) because we look for more meaning than there is sometimes.

It could have been as simple as "Ooh, look, porn! Oh, actually I'm babysitting, better shut it down" that went through his mind. with absolutely no meaning attached or further thought given. Think him leaving the history undeleted is testament to the silliness of it/his actions.

Still, ask a professional to put your mind at rest.

Original poster
mindalina · 09/12/2008 13:22

x-posted with a few of you there.

I suppose there's no way of proving it either way is there? GreenGables I understand what you are saying about playing it down.

Well. I will obviously not have babysit anymore, that's clear. But how to handle the issue of him being my friend is less clear. I don't really want to be friends with someone I suspect even a tiny bit of suspicious behaviour with children. Ah well. I will muddle through.

Genuinely am very grateful for all of your input.

OP posts: