to think its pretty sad they way some mums, with more than one child try to patronise mothers of one saying oh its so easy with one all the time

[freespiritfreedom]

they do not know all your circumstances.

they amount of help and support/babysitting mothers get varies greatly.

if they want to constanly whing how hard it is, why did they have more then?
esp when they have more than 2 as they knew whatthey where letting themseleves in for its like they expect the kids to be grateful for being born.

I think the difficulty is that all the things that people are saying are harder:

more washing
more tidying
more playing
more reading
more talking
more school plays

are just the sorts of things that parents of only children, where it is not through choice, would positively welcome in their lives. Therefore, for it to be used against them is difficult to swallow. DH and I may well be unable to have another - time will tell - and I know I will wish for a busier household as DS gets older. At the moment, well one very demanding toddler is quite enough thank you very much!

i don't think it is really being 'used against' them? is it. When I just had one child I didn't feel it was being used against me. I think perhaps the difference is when you are the parent of one child through choice, or the parent of one child but would really like more. then i think the sensitivity will obviously understandbly increase and people should take greater care in how they deal with that

More squabbling?

well my three are now in bed so i need to keep up the constant squabbilng soundtrack that goes on in my life all the time or otherwise i start to get very stressed out!

also - i think when you have just one baby, with sleeps in the day etc, it is easier with one. But I think once they get to about 2/3, its easier with more than one as they play together. THat is my definite experience.

It is harder, for me I have a 15month and a newborn. It is so much harder for me at the moment but I would never say that to someone with only one child.

The other day at nursery one mum said to me it was easier with two as her DD loved to look after her baby with her. Lovely for her. Made me want to throw myself off a cliff as I am ttc DC2 after a mc earlier this year, but she wasnt to know....

we are having a bit of a 'one child' family moment cos the 2 ds' are staying over at their nan's. it's so fab. and so easy. sorry but true. can't wait to get them back though and would never ever complain about the mayhem of 3 young kids. yanbu cos your 'friend' sounds a pain but I would agree that 1+ is generally more hard work than just 1

Morocco, I would say the same to you as I did to Fillyjonk. Having one temporarily cannot be compared to having one permanently. I don't doubt that daily chores etc. are less demanding with just one, but it is the more important stuff that's more difficult.

And, for the record, my DS have never reliably slept in the day so there has never been a break for me or DH when we're looking after him.

It seems two different issues are being discussed here.
a) The actual work involved. 2 children = double the physical work/care; 3 children = triple the physical work/care, all of this being subtracted from the carer's time/rest/sleep. All other things being equal i.e no special needs etc, this surely doesn't vary.
b) An individual parent's ability to cope. This does vary. This might be for a variety of reasons, lack of support, other stresses,illness, depression etc

I found it a completely different ballgame with 2. One child was well within my tolerence threshold for sleeplessness, noise, mess, housework but two exceeded the threshold by some margin. I happen to find dividing my attention between them really hard and feel I don't do it as well as I did when I had just one. If two children are shouting for your help at once you have to prioritise (which is emotionally challanging imo - "what is more important, am I being fair" etc)as well as walk twice as far to both helpees! This is on top of making decisions that all parents have to make (I would imagine) about how to react to each individual child's behaviour ("Am I going to make an issue of this; let him have some crisps; react to that blah blah blah).

It seems to me that the OP needs to be a bit more supportive to her friend who is clearly struggling. Either that OP, or TALK TO THE FRIEND AND TELL HER that you find it upsetting. Friends are generally people that you talk to about your feelings no?

Do parents with more than one child not usually start with just the one (unless multiple bith for first pregnancy)? therefore maybe they know what they are talking about when they say it is more work to have several than one. I know, I am contradicting my previous post but had time to sit down and think while 3dcs out for lessons +1 asleep... I do none the less agree with watershed on the coping issue which definetely varies from one individual to the other.

I'm pretty sure my life, right now, had I had a second child, and it was now aged, say, 2 (DD is 4.8) then that life would be harder work in most respects than the life I actually have. I can also look at other specific people with one child, or two or three, and have some idea of which bits of their lives are easier than mine, and which harder. But it's all very specific and individual - LoremIpsum, you can't take specific circumstances out of the equation, because that's pointless, it's not an equation, it's people's lives and that's highly subjective.

MorrisZapp, I do try very hard not to make these kinds of comments - after all those people who 'amusingly' said how much harder it would be when DD was a toddler (when she was a baby and I was on my knees with PND), then those who said 'you can always have one!' as she held someone else's newborn and thought of her six miscarriages ... actually 'you have it easy with one' is small beer, compared to that, isn't it?

I have just come back from a wedding where comparing notes with other pg. family member. I remembered this thread and bit my tongue not to say "you think you're tired now, try being pg. with a toddler" :-) I realise it used to really piss me off when people said that to me, and it was invariably the same people who now say "oh, but it's so much harder with 2/3/8, you are so lucky to have one very easy child"...

But then I did have a friend who said "well sweetie, if you don't relax you are going to keep having miscarriages..." So I guess even "friends" can be absolutely cows or tactless without ever realising it (except of course that being me I tend to point out the error of their ways :-)

From Twinkle about one 'but it is the more important stuff that's more difficult.'

I'm puzzled. How can important things become easier when they involve more people and therefore a wider variety of issues?

sharing, being considerate and other human virtues are much more difficult to teach one child....as is teaching them that they are not the centre of the universe.

Hmm well those things have to be learned by everyone, so not entirely convinced they are particularly harder for one.

I know too many only children that are quite crap at those skills and spend a lot of time with adults and beig treated as such. I married an only child and he's still the bloody same.
My children (oldest 14 moths apart) have always had someone else to consider, someone else to lose to, win graciously, share, consider, etc. I'm not saying that having one child is harder, generally, because it just couldn't, but I do think it is such different experience that some things must be harder.

I had one child for 10 years and then I had a baby 7 months ago. I used to get really upest about this, part of the reason I now know is my grief about only have one child, i used to say lots of things to myself like, ive got more money for nice clothes, trips, more time to myself. But inside i was ripped up because I wanted more kids, but I had lost 3 to m/c. Now I have two and yes its physically harder but mentally easier for me than having one.

I sometimes have a moan - everyone moans about something don't they!

When I had dc3 I didn't realise that dh would have a promotion and never be here, that my one family member who lives within 100 miles would get a new job and never be able to help, that I would get an illness that leaves me physically and emotionally drained.

I try to moan only to close friends but sometimes when someone at school with one child, who doesn't work, has family support and a husband at home says how hard it is with one child I do want to scream.

However, life is not a competition - everyone has a right to have a good old rant!

And I say that having mellowed out with my second beer after yet another day on my own with my darling (snotty/full of cold/whiney/bickering) little bundles of fun!

And also (while on a rant) - my ds1 thinks that he is the centre on the universe and won't share. His older dsis and younger db just have to learn to give into him! The biggest difference is that I'm tooo tired to bother to teach him otherwise!

Sorry - can you tell I've had a bad day!

"Fillyjonk - I?m sorry but I have to laugh at your comment ?You need to find enough hours in the day to play and talk and read do all that sort of thing.? All that sort of thing is called being a parent isn?t it, regardless of how many children you have. And there's much more onus on you to do it when there is only one child, so if you find it a bind it would surely be hell with just the one child."

yeah, as I said, they do reliably have company. That is a big plus.

IMO it does not cancel out all the rest of the work.

I am not saying that there is NOTHING about having more than 1 child that is easier than just having 1, but ON BALANCE, it is harder work.

But I am wondering if we are saying the same thing anyway? Are you saying that, yes, it is hard work but you WANT the hard work? We'll I'd agree with that.

TBH I think this might be coming down to a semantic argument really. I think there is indisputably MORE work with 2 (or 3). And until you have experienced it, you cannot really comprehend quite how like being bombareded in a never ending stream of very thick custard it is.

Its great fun though. And I'd rather my life was fun than easy, so I am not complaining!

?You need to find enough hours in the day to play and talk and read do all that sort of thing.? All that sort of thing is called being a parent isn?t it, regardless of how many children you have. And there's much more onus on you to do it when there is only one child, so if you find it a bind it would surely be hell with just the one child.

And to come back to this one

OK. Here is the thing

When you have 2 children, you have something like twice as much talking, twice as much reading, twice as much playing

YES you lose a bit when (if) they play/talk etc together. Don't rely on this too much though. They still usually want YOU to do SOMETHING here, its not usually like having another child, already considered a friend, and around the same age over on a playdate. Also, a lot of siblings just don't play together. They just don't get on. So far, touch wood, mine three do. I know I am very lucky in this, it may help that they are homeschooled so really have to learn to get on, and it is something we do work on. There are things I think you can do to help the process (would really recommend the Adele Farber (sp?)/ Mazlisch books) but some kids really seem utterly incompatible,

BUT this is made up for by having to sort out disputes, listen to cute skits involving lots of cardboard (yes this is sometimes lovely but...sometimes you just want to sit and read a book for the first time in a week)

Watershed's post is really good and I am going to cut and paste from it in case anyone has only skimmed.

"I happen to find dividing my attention between them really hard and feel I don't do it as well as I did when I had just one. If two children are shouting for your help at once you have to prioritise (which is emotionally challanging imo - "what is more important, am I being fair" etc)as well as walk twice as far to both helpees! This is on top of making decisions that all parents have to make (I would imagine) about how to react to each individual child's behaviour ("Am I going to make an issue of this; let him have some crisps; react to that blah blah blah)."

I'd just add-what parent doesn't find divinding attention in this way hard? I think that THIS is the big difference between 1 and 2. You have to, on a near constant basis, decide which of the people you love best in the whole world should have their needs attended to second (or third). And sometimes (often) you get it wrong and that is suprisingly guilt inducing.

I am sorry,I have posted two replies

I did one and THOUGHT I'd deleted it but somehow, there it is, up on screen.

Ah well. Sorry to everyone having to wade through my streams of consciousness.