to set out a document for anyone looking after my daughter stating what I expect from them now my partner and I have split?

[May1808]

My partner and I recently split, meaning my 14 month old DD will be living between two homes and visiting grandparents/other relatives and presumably sometimes being cared for (babysitting etc) by my ex partners family and I won't be there to keep an eye on things.

I don't think I am being a control freak to ask that some basic rules are set by me and my ex with regard to food, routine, medicines & safety that are agreed by anyone else involved in her care and I think its better to do it now rather than after problems happen so that everyone knows where they stand.

I know her dad absolutely dotes on her and would never intentionally do anything to harm her or undermine me (well I hope not but he might discover a vindictive streak!) but he is much more easy going, slap dash, cross that bridge when we come to it than I am (one of the reasons why we split) so its definately important that we agree on the basic points that we will observe.

The thought of drawing up a formalised document wouldn't even have occured to me, other than I used to spend an awful lot of time explaining to the ex why I wanted to do things a certain way and why him not doing it that way would undermine me etc, and then even more time explaining to the ex in-laws why I was doing things a certain way and why, for example, they mustn't add salt to DD's food or let her play in the bathroom that hasn't been baby-proofed, or go through peoples bags that contain all sorts (her pulling out a blister pack of paracetemol and watching the mother in law say 'oh what a clever girl you've found something' rather than whipping them away and saying don't touch medicine, they're dangerous) sticks in my memory.

In addition to that, there are certain rules and ways of disciplining her that are my way of parenting and I do worry that if other people do other things it will result in a lack of continuity and boundaries for her, allowing her to play one carer off against another and generally be a confused and unhappy child who can't do wrong for doing right.

So far I've put things in like, don't add salt to her food, only give milk or water to drink, don't give her nuts or peanuts, don't give her sweet things between meals etc and the obvious safety things like don't let her play on the stairs or what to do if she's teething, but I'm worried that my ex will say 'this is ridiculous i'm sure everyone involved is capable of looking after a child (now i'll go and bury my head in the sand and hope nothing dead bad happens)' and the in laws (who i don't know what their reaction to the split is yet but probably really angry with me for 'giving up' and 'ruining things for everyone' and 'only thinking about myself' - some kind of conviction because of their religion what we should get married and stay together for the children) might well take the view that 'who is she to tell us what to do, we've raised 4 kids AND have a successful marriage...'

Arrrgh this is a minefield. What do you guys think?

I used to be a bit like this about DS (pfb) when I left him alone with DP - we are still together but he is much more laissez faire about things and because he doesn't look after him as much, some things he doesn't know about.

It used to drive him mad, and I'd be driven mad with worry, but I've learned not to sweat the small stuff and focus on the important things - so no salt in food is quite important, but one biscuit or two for his snack really isn't.

I think it's a good idea to sit down with your Ex and agree some common ground rules, if only so you feel less stressed, but I wouldn't take it any further than that. Hard as it is, you HAVE to trust your ex and his extended family to look after your child, otherwise you're in for a lifetime of worry.

When you think about it, what's the most important thing? That your child is warm, safe, fed and loved. Everything else is really just detail.

hope this helps

I really feel for you and I can see why you would want to do this (I would be very anxious about my DD being looked after by people without a quick briefing from me beforehand).

However, I think that you need to talk guidelines with your DH and let him informally give them to anyone that he trusts to care for your child. I know that this is hard as you'll feel that you don't have "control" of the situation, but presumably he is also a responsible adults who loves DD very much (as you say)

PFB means precious first born, don't worry about it. I have started to take being called PFB in a positive way.

Why dont you start a blog with photos and updates of her that the grandparens can look at every now and then. And also link to the latest government guidance on car seats, nut allergies etc. It would be a nice way of keeping them updated and then they can come across other info you want them to.

Suggest you diarise the routine, wake time, snack time, foods she likes etc. But dont go overboard as they will ignore it. Keep it simple.

May I have to say I'm with your MIL on that one - what could have happened with a toilet brush that was dangerous or bad? If she put it in her mouth, she would soon take it out again, and she wouldn't be harmed. Children do eat poo occasionally, and a tiny residue of bleach is not going to kill anyone.

Not suggesting that when you see her with a toilet brush you shouldn't say 'No, we don't play with that', but it's not on a par with playing with a carving knife or sticking paperclips in sockets.

It's really hard to relinquish responsibility for your child - I know, my mum has just driven off with Ds in the car and I'm sitting here wondering whether to phone to see if they got there safely, but you HAVE to do it. Otherwise you will go insane.

I would just point out the reason for not giving sugary snacks between meals is a dental health issue. I was told by a dental health nurse who works at the hospital where they extract the rotten teeth of pre-schoolers that one of the best ways to avoid tooth decay as well as the normal brushing twice and day and regular check ups is to avoid sugar between meals. At meals, fine, because the acid it produces is less concentrated, and by leaving the gap between meals you are essentially giving your teeth a rest. In addition I live in an area with the worst children's teeth in the country, we don't have flouride in the water (although I'm not personally convinced on the validity of that anyway) and there are no NHS dentist spaces available.

If someone can show me info that this woman was totally misinformed and telling us a load of rubbish and eating sugar between meals is not an issue then I'll revise my opinion but until then, no.

You might say 'is a biscuit as a snack such a big issue?' but in that case is a slice of toast and a handful of grapes instead such a big issue?

I haven't read all of this, but would say..

you need to chill, you sound totally control freaky!

You have to remember that GP's forget what its like to have a moving baby/toddler. I think an informal "remember she'll try and get the bleach from your bathroom" is fine.

My MIL was holding my DD with a glass of wine in one hand and DD in the other (sat down), she then gave DD a spoon and DD proceeded to bash it in to the glass, fortunately the glass split in two and went the opposite way to DD

And my MIL is a teacher. People (including parents) forget how careful you have to be as children change week by week.

I know of a case of a dad whose DS fell off a nappy table because in the 24 hours since he had last changed a nappy the son had learnt to roll.

Gentle reminders are ok. GP's would rather you patronise them (slightly) than let an accident occur.

You are completely right about insisting they use a car seat when travelling with your dd.

BUT.... stipulating what snacks they can give, how they should discipline, and giving them rules about the most basic parts of childcare when they are clearly experienced, is controlling, and possibly quite offensive to those you impose your rules upon.

Grandparents are usually more relaxed, more fun and less uptight than parents, and the experience of this type of relationship is beneficial to the children.

Imvho you sound like quite a controlling person, particularly the way in which you responded with such sarcasm to posters who were supplying you with the opinions you requested

AnneofAvonlea's idea of a blog is great, then it is more of a "keeping you up to date with DD's progress" than a stern word about childcare.

May, the thing is, how often is your DD going to be there?

You are going to have to accept that the ILs will give your DD some sweets between meals. Sorry, but that is the way it is. That is what Grannies are there for, to spoil the child a bit more than they would be at home.

If your MIL was going to be taking DD all week while you were working, then that would be a different situation, but once a week, for a day? They are not going to undo all your good work in a few hours.

grapes are very high sugar. fructose is still a sugar...

Just read your last post re dental health, and although I agree that a stream of sugary snacks will lead to tooth decay, depriving your child of a biscuit at Grandmas is taking this advice to the extreme.

I really think you need to relax a bit.

Actually biscuits are not that bad and probably no worse for your DD's teeth than a handful of grapes.

I think you really need to let your DP tell his parents how to look after your DD. I said that earlier but it's worth repeating. He might not do things in the way you would like but that doesn't make him wrong I'm afraid, just a different kind of parent from you.

I once offered to look after DP's nephew one day a week. SIL arrived with a list exactly like that. I immediately retracted my offer, not because I was offended (although, to be honest, I was a little) but because I was SO SCARED I would do something "wrong" or against the list without meaning to and of the wrath that would be incurred. FWIW, I love DP's nephew a lot and really like his sister. I want the best for them. I personally think that's more important than rules and regulations.

Can't you have a discussion about careseat and things like that?
I think producing a document makes it seem very ott.
He may well have some input- how would you feel about that?
Is he living with your in laws now?

I guess it's just really hard for me to accept that if my ex asks his parents to do a specific thing about our daughter that they might not do it because if I ask my parents to do something they would take on board what I am saying and act on it because they respect me and my ability to be a parent.

I'm not saying I'm totally perfect and always remember to do everything all the time that I should or that I always make 100% the right decisions about everything child related, but I am careful that I don't justify bad habits (i.e. habits that I have decided I don't want to get into) as 'just this once' when really its happening every day.

Nor am I saying that by writing down the important aspects of her care (i.e. the ones that are important to me and her dad) means that everyone will always do all of them all the time or that we or I can expect it to be that enforceable.

However, if the info isn't out there in some form and hasn't been agreed by me and my ex, how can any of us actually have a go at getting it right most of the time?

May - I have the best intentions when I say this -
Is it possible that you have had anxiety issues since having dd? I'm not asking because of this silly list thing - more that you say your relationship with your partner has suffered because he is more laid back. It may be that if you are acting differently to how you would have pre-baby that you should seek help from your GP. Post-natal anxiety is very real and can be very horrible - but it is treatable if you have it.

Fruit - the sugar in fruit is in a different form to that of REFINED sugar found in biscuits, sweets, cakes etc. The reason for this is while the sugars remain in the fruit the cell walls remain in tact so although the fruit tastes sweet the sugars are taken into the body without causing a massive acidic reaction in the mouth, whereas foods containing refined sugars, or where that protective cell wall has been broken down in fruit (i.e. by juicing/blending in a smoothie or whatever) will cause an acidic reaction in the mouth.

Again if anyone can find me a link showing that this is total rubbish and that the sugar in fruit causes the same reaction in the mouth as refined sugars please do, I will be happy to change my mind but I'm not going to rant on about the boring science of dental health any more.

i think it is completely over the top, when your child is being looked after by other people you have to let them get on with them and trust in them. I split up with my sons father when he wasn't that much older than your child, many years ago now, but i consider it nigh on none of my business what they get up to when i am not around, that is another part of his life over which i have no influence. Your daughter will be cared for by people who love and adore her, what else could you want for on this earth? that is the only consistency your child needs. BTW my son has grown into a lovely well balanced young man

I do understand how you feel, May, I have a similar situation with my ILs, although dh and I are not seperated.

My issues are mainly to do with their refusal to smoke outside when dd is there, their constant swearing in front of her, and the fact that they say awful things about their son (dds dad) when she is there.

That is why your issues about biscuits and toilet brushes seem small to me, although I appreciate that we all have different worries and priorities.

Hope you can talk to them informally without causing offence rather than presenting them with a contract.

I don't think anyone is saying that agreeing the important aspects of her care isn't a good idea, May. But you need to be careful not to upset the people who love your DD and have her best interests at heart.

I would say by all means write down, with your ex, the things that matter - when bedtime/naptime is, what sort of things she likes to eat, what things are TOTALLY banned (nuts for allergy reasons for example), that car seats are not negotiable, what kind of things she does that might lead her into danger (is she a climber, does she like shiny things, does she put things in her mouth etc).

Try not to worry about things like discipline etc - different people have different approaches, and children thrive on learning about the differences between people. Obviously if they smack and you don't, that's one to insist on.

But try to keep the list short and people are much more likely to abide by it. And let your ex deal with his parents, otherwise you risk alienating them in what must already be a tricky situation. Balance the risk to DD (a biscuit instead of grapes for example) against the risk of having bad relations with her GPs.

Good Luck. You must be going through a really tough time with a split, and it is difficult to think of other people looking after your child. If it's any help, it gets much easier when they're a bit older!

I think it might be better to draw up the list to give and go through with your ex, and prioritise the key points for him to verbally pass on to his parents. Otherwise their noses will be seriously put out of joint.

X posts.

"Is it possible that you have had anxiety issues since having dd? I'm not asking because of this silly list thing - more that you say your relationship with your partner has suffered because he is more laid back. It may be that if you are acting differently to how you would have pre-baby that you should seek help from your GP. Post-natal anxiety is very real and can be very horrible - but it is treatable if you have it."

This is a fair point and I can see why you have said it. I did have post natal (and pre pregnancy and during pregnancy) depression which was, thank god, treated successfully after DD was born. However, ex was also diagnosed with depression and anxiety disorder which he never sought treatment for and refuses to do so. I don't think this is why he is more laid back than me, he is just like that but while I am very pro-active and like to get things straight in my head and work to a plan (pretty vital to keep stress levels down when you're juggling work, parenthood and have no money and no time to do anything).

Unfortunately his laidbackness combined with depression/anxiety got to the point where he would't open his bank statements or any of the bills, for example, meaning that I have to do it, and I then have to deal with it all on my own. When this starts extending into literally every area of your life you realise that maybe the two personality types combined with the circumstances will not work as a couple and that the arguing/tension in the household was not fair on DD so we split. (There were other things that had not been right between us for a long time that we had tried to sort with relationship counselling etc but if you can't find a way to work together no matter how hard you both try it won't work).

I think maybe I am a bit not controlling because of what happened, for example, I would never dream of telling him what activities he should/shouldn't do when he has our daughter or what state he needs to keep his house above the basic level of safe for a child to be in but I am the type of person who tries to avoid confrontation by making compromises before the confrontation actually occurs, which obviously can backfire on you a lot if the other people see it as you making a big fuss when nothing has ever happened.

Essentially what I would like to be able to say to him and his family is 'as long as you guys stick to these things that are really important to me i won't interfere with any other aspect of your relationship with my daughter, please respect that, i respect that she needs you guys and you need her' - the problem being how to go about doing that as even saying that in itself has the potential to cause offence.

Sorry, but I actually laughed when I read that post about sugary stuff causing tooth decay.

EVERYBODY knows that but gp's ALWAYS slip the kids a sly sweetie - I think its in their remit - and none of my dc's (oldest 10 yo) have any fillings yet.

I would be seriously offended if someone gave me a list about safety issues as if I'm being asked to babysit I assume they trust me enough to know I wouldn't let their dc's do anything stupid.

Its fine to let them know about nap times and diet - anything else is OTT and you risk alienating them.