to think my friend shouldn't use formula just so she can have a drink and an unbroken nights sleeph

[typo]

My friend is mixed feeding, she gives a couple of bottles of formula in the day.

Her dd is 10 weeks and she told me tat tonight her dd is going to have formula in the night even though she is always b/f at night. She said she is going to have a few drinks then slee in the spare room whuile DH does this one night duty.

AIBU to think that this is selfish and that her dd shoud not be denied breast milk just for her own selfish reasons?

My 2 year old went through phases of feeding 10 times a day. Sometimes at night too. I appreciate that for someone who bottlefeeds this might seem beyond the pale, but there are lots of women who do it who don't feel it's a big deal. Really.

Would want to add, that if my 2 year old wanted to feed at a time that wasn't convenient to me I didn't let him. The problem with the mother in the programme sounds like she didn't give the child any boundaries. But giving a child boundaries doesn't mean you have to enforce weaning from the breast. You can breastfeed an older child without letting it dominate your or their life. Supernanny sees bf an older child as categorically dysfunctional - which it's not.

Why would a 2yo need to bf 10 times per day when he or she has a balanced diet? or did she not eat well? It is a fact that too much milk can affect their dietary intake and interest in solids. If they are snacking for comfort I think its a bad thing because they need to be able to deal with situations at school without having you to feed from for comfort

sounds like a fucking excellent coupe of reasons to me

tell you friend to cat me - i have vodka

fabsmum she didn't say it was dysfunctional, just that the child was using it as a manipulative tool. I agree with bf as necessary for as long as i.e. morning and night at 2, not on demand though.

"Why would a 2yo need to bf 10 times per day when he or she has a balanced diet?"

Well - I had around 10 drinks today all in all, when you take all the tea/coffee/juice/wine I've had over the course of the day. How many have you had? And snacks? Why wouldn't a child want the odd sip of breastmilk now and then?

"It is a fact that too much milk can affect their dietary intake and interest in solids."

I can only speak for my children. They have all bf on demand well past a year, have all been great with solids, and are all very good eaters now, so it obviously hasn't done them any harm.

"If they are snacking for comfort I think its a bad thing because they need to be able to deal with situations at school without having you to feed from for comfort"

Ah well - that's the thing with breastfeeding. It really is more than about getting calories into children. Funnily enough bf children do also learn other ways of coping with difficult situations. Mine have.

fabsmum, thats my point, they are capable of taking drinks from a cup, they don't need to bf 10 times per day.

The thing is that the benefits from the short time each time spent on a quick slurp cannot amount to very much either nutritionally or from an immunity perspective. Like I said morning and night feeds fine but not for all needs for comfort.

fabsmum the girl in the programme didn't have other strategies and that was my main point. She screamed when left with her father. The father didn't sleep in the marital bed for 5yrs due to the mother bf. How can a family be united and happy with that situation?

"fabsmum, thats my point, they are capable of taking drinks from a cup, they don't need to bf 10 times per day"

Well - you don't need to drink ten times a day either, but you probably do! My children took drinks from cups as well at this time - but also from the breast because they a) they wanted to and b) there's nothing intrinsically wrong with them breastfeeding if they and I still continue to wish to feed in this way. Natural term breastfeeding isn't about strict nutritional needs - of course they can do without the milk and without the breastfeeding, but it's good for both them and for me to continue.

"The thing is that the benefits from the short time each time spent on a quick slurp cannot amount to very much either nutritionally or from an immunity perspective.
Actually a toddler can extract a lot of milk in a five minute feed. And I'd always rather my toddler was drinking breastmilk to cows milk or squash. Cows milk is designed for baby cows. My milk is designed for my baby and toddler.

"Like I said morning and night feeds fine but not for all needs for comfort."

Well morning and night feeds might be fine for some mothers and some babies, but not for others. Short feeds throughout the day were fine for me and my babies. And fine for comforting a child too, as a part of a range of comforting strategies you and your child use to get through the day.

YABU but you already know that and are just trying to stir.

'What's wrong with having a couple of drinks and a nice meal or an evening out at the cinema instead of having a alcohol binge and rendering yourself semi-conscious? Or do those of us who don't get regularly shit faced automatically qualify as joyless martyrs?'

how do you know the OP's pal intends to drink herself stupified? She said 'so she can have a drink'. Maybe the troll OP is a joyless martyr like yourself and defines 3 or 4 glasses of wine as a huge binge.

by the same token, what's wrong with a person actually doing something for a whole night away from their children?

I think your friend can do what the hell she likes and it's none of your damn business!

Blimey, she's not exactly leaving her home alone or starving her. What planet are you on exactly?!

Planet No-Life, GDG.

Where the fact that kids grow up and get their own lives, without you, doesn't exist.

She said 'so she can have a drink'.

But she can have a drink, or even two drinks and breastfeed.

"Maybe the troll OP is a joyless martyr like yourself and defines 3 or 4 glasses of wine as a huge binge".

That's a bit nasty isn't it?

"by the same token, what's wrong with a person actually doing something for a whole night away from their children?"

Ummm, has anyone here implied that there's something wrong with spending a night away from your children?

No. So why the vitriol?

Except I suppose that all that bitterness has to go somewhere.... shame so much of it seems to leak out onto the boards on mumsnet.....

In any case - we're not talking about 'children', we're talking about a newborn baby. Different needs. Different issues.

I expressed last night so I could have a break (although DH failed miserably at giving the bottle so I fed anyway).

I had a couple of glasses of wine too, didn't get unconscious, I don't think that's what the OP was suggesting.

Calm down fabsmum.

it was meant to be tongue in cheek, fabs, but this board has utterly lost its sense of humour in the past few months.

it's become almost American, with everyone getting up in arms, bent out of shape, oh, so bitter, aggro, etc. instead of just 'lol! it's an INTERNET forum full of strangers!'

it was a troll OP, not meant to be taken seriously or to wind people up.

but, like most, folks have taken it personally instead of just having fun and taking the piss out of it.

at any rate, it's boring as all hell so i'm off to tell people to wear purple tights with everything, but make sure you don't accidentally throw them in a charity bin.

I think the OP is about her having a full night's sleep actually, not about the booze fabsmum. Perhaps you should re-read it.

Expat....
Whatever to the OP.....

From the OP:

"Well she has had a cold and said she needed a proper nights sleep, which I can understand but now has decided to have a drink as well as the baby will be having formula."

Doesn't sound like she plans to get unconscious, sounds like she plans to recover from her illness.

In a case like this it is better to reserve judgment about what's best for some one else's baby, but you can have an opinion on what you would do for yours. I remember a woman telling me she put her baby on formula just so that her dh could take a share in the night feeding. But her dh just wouldn't wake up and she ended up doing the night feeds herself with all the faff of bottles rather than just latching the baby on.

"The only person mums should have to justify using artificial milk instead of their own milk to is their child - they're the only one who is affected by the decision in the short or the long term."

My Mum used artificial milk with me. She ebf my older brother for 6 months, but was advised to introduce formula from 6 weeks with me as I had lost a lot of weight and ended up using formula exclusively in the end.

Fast forward 30 years and my DD lost 20 per cent of her birth weight and we ended up introducing formula in hospital. We're still mixed feeding now.

I hope my daughter "forgives" me the way I've forgiven my Mum

And no, I don't want any b/feeding advice, thank you. I've had it all.

Elasticwoman - the woman should have kicked her hubby harder then till he did wake up

Waking up and getting up are two different things, of course. Quite hard to force some one to get up and feed a baby when you want that baby fed more than they do.

Meh, now if was giving her DD a bottle of wine as opposed to milk in the night I might raise an eyebrow, but other than that I can barely muster a post to answer this. You do the best you can with what you have at the time.

"Fast forward 30 years and my DD lost 20 per cent of her birth weight and we ended up introducing formula in hospital. We're still mixed feeding now"

Did your daughter lose 20% of her birth weight before you left hospital? How long were you in for?

Sometimes bf doesn't work out the way we hope. Good though that at least you've had had expert support from bf counsellors. Hope feeding gets easier for you.