to expect my friends 2y 10mth old dd not to scream every time she doesn't get what she wants?

[mytetherisending]

Have just had my friend with 2 dcs over this am for lunch and have had to put up with her dd who is the same age as mine screaming blue murder when she had to share/take turns/eat lunch/ been told no toys on the table Am I expecting too much in that I at least expect her to apply consequences when her dd does this i.e. time out etc. She just kept repeating 'no darling, don't do that' 'no darling, you have to share don't you' in a baby voice. This approach certainly isn't working for her.

I am because toward the end of the morning my dd who doesn't scream was trying to copy her, for which she got sent to time out.

Geogimama your children may not be friends at that age, ours certainly are and my dd asks to see her friends/go to their houses to play. They are nearly 3, not just 2y

Herbie, there's at least 2 years before this little girl starts school, don't exaggerate the issue. Not quite three year old who has a tantrum does not equal class delinquent.

"IMVHO a child of 2 years 10 months is very capable of knowing that it is not acceptable to scream blue murder becasue they can't have their own way."

Being capable of knowing and capable of controlling their behaviour is 2 entirely different things. DS3 was capable of knowing he wouldn't get what he wanted by screaming (he never does and he's not daft) but he was/still is to an extent completely unable to control his responses.

That's why their 2 and still have 16 years before they can vote

"All my parents have been completely happy with it and have seen big improvements in their dcs behaviour in various situations."

Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!

Who are you really? You can't be supernanny because she doesn't have any kids, and you can't be Tracy Hogg because she's dead. You're not dum dum dum da!!!

(whispers)

Gina

Are you?

thanks herbietea, thats my point really. How long do you do the pacify/distract and not use any discipline with this?
Will she be screaming at school and should the teacher just ignore it?
My dd actually said that x hurt her ears when she got up from her afternoon sleep.

No LOL I haven't got a penny to my name LOL!

You're Jools Oliver aren't you? Fess up!

Lol, so now you are saying that once you get hold of these other people's children then they drastically improve!?

Yanda that is exactly what I am saying, from helping a child who was terrified of water and screamed on and off for an hour in it to being completely confident in water in 9mths. Having 2 children who wouldn't eat well, 1 ate no fruit except banana and hardly any veg/meat, after 1 yr with me ate all fruit/ veg/meat. One had silent tantrums which stopped quickly with time out. Another child was really tantruming at home and by working with the parent we addressed the causes and it has resolved.

a child of2y10m is still experientially learning and cognitively and emotionally growing.they cannot consistently differentiate and/or display consistently "good behaviours" (an adult imposed set of social criteria usually)

certainly they don't consistently know how to moderate behaviour,emotional response,or actions and consequences

ease up on the expectations

it is called terrible two for a reason

maybe tut less, support more

it is hard enough without feeling your friend is gazing askance at your parenting and stroppy toddler

Have you considered the possibility that in 9 months the waterphobe would have grown out of it anyway?

Or that the veg dodger would have started to eat veg in a year anyway? And that you didn't cause these miraculous changes, you just happened to be there.

Scottishmummy I agree they are still learning but unfortunately this child is learning that screaming gets her what she wants

georgimama the improvements happened almost immediately, not just overnight at the times stated and no, the fruit and veg dodger still dodged it at home to the mothers frustration, so hadn't grown out of it at home

I also agree with you OP, and with rocks' very clear post.

I don't necessarily agree with you in all the details - I don't like time out, never use it, and toys on the table? - meh. But yes to boundaries, from a very early age - it doesn't mean being cruel, and it doesn't mean you think your child is always going to behave - it means making clear to them as soon as they can understand, what is and is not OK, with clear consequences, and consistency. Doing this is not just a good idea because it helps your child to behave - IMO it is what small children really crave. They want to know where they stand, it makes them feel secure and happy - I think a lot of kicking off happens when children are fliundering around without boundaries and trying to get someone, anyone, to make a stand.

Yes, children are different and I accept that I have a moderately well-behaved 3yo myself, on average, and if I have another I might find out how different they can be. But isn't it possible that if you only ever do this kind of namby pamby "don't do that dear" and never take action, you might well encourage a child to think it's OK to behave like this, and their behaviour might have something to do with that? Surely no one on here is seriously suggesting that children's behaviour at age 3 has absolutely zero to do with how we bring them up? And if you do think that, as other posters have said, when it that magic tipping point when we suddenly start having an influence?

If you cannot defend the idea of basic boundaries and discipline for fear of being called smug, then I despair. The OP just wants her friend to step in - not to create a perfect, docile child, just to act like a parent.

My DS can kick off with the best of them. But I make it clear when he's out of order, I use consequences and I follow through with them, even if it means going home if he won't behave (though that's rare). Yes I'm embarrassed sometimes, but not half as embarrassed as I would be if I couldn't even bring myself to tell him no.

OP, I have friends like this too, people I have never, ever known to take a firm stand with their DCs (and btw I am not talking about smacking or shouting, just firm boundaries and consequences) and I see their DCs growing up fairly clueless about how to behave. I think that's a parental cruelty, tbh. People think it's important that their kids learn to read, road safety, etc. How to behave around other people is also an essential life skill.

the toddler wants needs met they use many tactics and in particular immediacy.hell thats what toddlers do

just because she screams now doesn't mean it wont decline or be eradicated and replaced by more positive behaviours and modelling behaviours

i generally say nowt about anyone else child, as who knows what awaits me.or might come back and bite me on the bum

Mytetherisending - Clearly you aren't going to learn any empathy here as all your failsafe approaches are clearly the way to go, and your friend just simply isn't listening.

Therefore, I refer back to my earlier post and say, surely your relationship with your friend will be a happier and healthier one if you agree to be friends only when the children aren't around ie. adult chats and nights out etc.?

Agree with Plonker - you seem to want to "fix" this situation, and are frustrated because you can't. Time to step away?

great posts snowleopard and herbietea..

It dumbfounds me as to why we think we are 'great mothers' when we allow kids to behave like this. It's child cruelty in the long run. Flame away.

The thing is, no one said trying to give your DCs some boundaries is failsafe. No one said chidlren are all the same, or that they'll always respond well to discipline, or that you can stop them ever having a tantrum, or that they won't suddenly change and have a "terrible" phase. Of course small children are like that. But just because these things are true, doesn't mean you shouldn't be there with the boundaries and the consistency and the consequences, because children need that. Since when did the fact that small children are difficult to manage and don't understand everything, mean that it's fine to abdicate responsibility for teaching them how to behave?

I think it is well below the belt to get sarky with the OP and accuse her of being smug / thinking she's perfect. Her methods are things that are widely discussed on this board, commonly recommended time and again to MNers who post "how can I get by 3yo to behave?"

Plonker in an ideal world that would be the case however neither of us can afford to go out very often atm so we would hardly have chance to chat. I know you don't think I care about her, but I do and tbh I am worried that if she doesn't get some control back she will become really down and I did ask quite a while back how people would show support?

I can see where the OP is coming from, A friends child was exactly like what the OP described. Screaming every time she wanted something, hurting other children. The mother never told child off or set any consistent boundaries. Unfortunately the mother lost quite a few friends due to her dd behaviour.(this is over a number of years) The problem was nobody wanted to interfere with her parenting and be seen to critising. So people just stopped going round her house or inviting her over. The dd has now started school and is having quite a few problems socialising and displaying appropriate behaviour. This is because she has never been taught to behave appropriately.

I do want to fix it for all concerned. She does get embarrassed about it and upset, so I try to suggest ways to deal with it, then she doesn't try them for whatever reason but looks so unhappy and stressed with the situation. I just want her to get some confidence to take a firm stand and am becoming frustrated with her passive approach tbh.

Mytether, in that case I would genuinely try to stop disciplining her dd - in your house or no - for a start. It is undermining her attempts, whatever you think of them. How about bringing up a hypothetical internet thread about children's behaviour (not this one, I suggest), and see if she mentions whether she gets stressed by her child's behaviour. You could then say "well, i read this and thought it seemed very helpful" - she may well think you are judging her, and feel uncomfortable because of that, so perhaps try to make it neutral, and not coming from you, iyswim?