to expect my friends 2y 10mth old dd not to scream every time she doesn't get what she wants?

[mytetherisending]

Have just had my friend with 2 dcs over this am for lunch and have had to put up with her dd who is the same age as mine screaming blue murder when she had to share/take turns/eat lunch/ been told no toys on the table Am I expecting too much in that I at least expect her to apply consequences when her dd does this i.e. time out etc. She just kept repeating 'no darling, don't do that' 'no darling, you have to share don't you' in a baby voice. This approach certainly isn't working for her.

I am because toward the end of the morning my dd who doesn't scream was trying to copy her, for which she got sent to time out.

YABU to a degree but completely understand why you were driven completely demented. Tantrums are one thing - and most of us have had to deal with them at one point or another - but unrelenting petulance is bloody IRRITATING in any guest - including a two year old.

When you invite someone into your house you can't expect them to conform to your rules. You just have to bite your tongue and get on with it. She'll be going home feeling smug because she isn't living in a fascist regime, meanwhile you can feel smug because you are not living in the domaine of ineffectual parenting and perpetual whining.

Different strokes for different folks but feel your pain.

This screaming phase has been going on since she could walk, so about 14mths now? Perhaps I should avoid until teenagehood!

There is a difference between the 'do it because I say so' attitude and 'don't do that because its not nice for others/dangerous etc', which is why I would time out. As far as I can see we are supposed to be teaching children how to deal with their emotions in a controlled manner and guide them towards being responsible adults and to know what acceptable behaviour in society is. By not setting standards or having boundries all they will learn is if I shout,argue and fight I get what I want.

Out of interest at what age do people think this behaviour is not acceptable?
Do the children magically become amiable and responsive to the word no?
Would it be acceptable for adults to scream if they didn't get what they want when they ask at work etc?

Should have said that I am the parent of a demented little madam who throws a strop at the least provication but still find tantrums in other people's children very waring....

I felt obliged to invite her over because I have been to her house where it is entirely her business how her dcs behave. Her dd said that she wanted to come to play at DD1s house to which I felt obliged to respond, since I had been to their house and had never had them over to mine (for the reasons I posted).

Hi my DS sounds like her and to be honest your the sort of "friend" I try to stay away from and make excuses as to why I cant see you. Nothing worse than a friend who criticises parenting, maybe she tried everything and nothing working and this is her better way of dealing woth it.

LuLu thanks for your very level post. If it was crying/shouting tantrum it wouldn't get me at all. Its the ear piercing screaming like a banshee that does my bonce! I just wish she would do something constructive to deter her from doing it, even a stern 'no, don't scream its hurting MTs dds ears/waking dd2 etc. She just kept saying 'stop it x' over and over but with no reason and no consequence if her dd didn't stop it.

bekkaboo most people do things for a few days and nothing changes so they try something else, which is confusing. Nothing works unless you do it for several weeks/months. As I said before she is inconsistent with her approach. i.e. sometimes she time outs after 10 warnings or more, other times no warning or explanation to her dd or saying when she will stop being removed.
That is the main problem, too many approaches instead of one consistent one.

Oh come on - we all go through stages where our kids are monsters but this isn't what the OP is posting about. She has had a crap day pandering to a kid who has run riot in her house (okay, may be exaggerating) while kid's mother has done nothing but adopt a 'baby voice' and coo advice to child. Admit it everyone - it would PISS YOU OFF TOO.

And if it doesn't maybe we should look at the way we are raising kids to get away with whatever they like, when they like - because we can't bear to be the bad guys once in a while and tell our kids THEY CAN'T ALWAYS HAVE WHAT THEY WANT.

Before I 'm flamed I'm not talking about those of us who are dealing with kids who have the occasional age related antrum or those with SN or social/processing issues but about ordinary kids who are allowed to run flaming riot because we are all too woosy to lay down the rules.

Tbh, if you could teach my nearly 2 year old how to not have tantrums I'd be extremely grateful. Didn't someone wise once say: 'Don't ever be smug or it will come back and bite you in the arse'? Or did I make that up? I like it anyway.
Mrs Mattie I have heard that exact theory re the non tantrumming 2s v nightmare teens... maybe they get it out of their system early or something (here's hoping).

"Mrs Mattie I have heard that exact theory re the non tantrumming 2s v nightmare teens... maybe they get it out of their system early or something (here's hoping)." Argh - don't say that! DD is pretty chilled (2 this week) - if I state publicly here that THIS IS JUST GOOD LUCK (and good laid-back genes from her father), am I off the hook when she's 13? Oh please, oh please....

mytetherisending on Tue 14-Oct-08 20:11:28

"There is a difference between the 'do it because I say so' attitude and 'don't do that because its not nice for others/dangerous etc', which is why I would time out."

This thread should be in the G&T section. A 2-year-old who actually regulates their behaviour according to what would be nice for others is something out of my experience anyway.

I have known placid 2yos. But that is a different matter and very little to do with parenting. Ds was one. Nothing at all to do with me, everything to do with him.

I don't think this is about being smug or not. It's about coming face to face with someone who's idea of parenting/discipline is very different from your own. I'm not posting defense of OP from a smug pov - as I said I have a tantrum prone dd (still at 5). Temper tantrums are normal, but petulance over a prolonged period of time is mind numblingly irritating and I don't blame the OP for being pissed off.

I think it's fab that everyone is jumping to the defense of the poor mother who has to deal with the kid but is it really unreasonable to raise the possibility that we find this kind of behaviour really bloody annoying (even in our own children)??

Am lol-ing at your posts mytether because I sounded just like you when i had my dd1

My dd1 really listened to me when I chastised her, she learnt the behaviour that i wanted from her and she learnt the behaviour that I didn't want from her. I set boundaries for her and she learned to appreciate those boundaries.
Of course I set the same boundaries to my screaming, screeching dd2 who ignored found it a little harder to learn the behaviour that I wanted from her, and ignored struggled to grasp the behaviour that I didn't want from her. As for dd3 ...I'm not even going there ...

With just dd1, I would be utterly appalled at other parents' lack of control. Then i learned to take my finger out of my own arse appreciate the fact that other parents' children are not the same as my own, and that other parents' disciplining methods are not the same as my own either. That doesn't make either one right or wrong.

All that said, i do agree that children need boundaries and discipline - but maybe now i'm not quite as quick to judge those whose methods are not the same as mine ...

mythether, while I do see how you've been stressed and perhaps frustrated by your friends, I do think your posting style on this thread is rather unsympathetic. 4 children isn't a statistically significant number - my mum spent about 50 years working with small children, sometimes in residential care, sometimes in SN schools, sometimes in nurseries, and her take on the experience of those 100s of children is that they're all different little humans - what works for one may well not work at all on another. I do agree that consistency is generally a very good thing - but perhaps your friend is picking up on how you feel - even if you don't intend to show it - and that's stressing her too? I know I drive much worse when DH is in the car (back seat driver, n'all, even when he doesn't say anything!)

Plonker - are you my sister?! She said she thought she was a brilliant parent until dd2 came along...

Habbibu - it's just a theory (one that I'm desperately clinging to)... just jealous of a laid back dd!

Mostly I tend to lurk on AIBU threads but couldn't believe the responses that the OP has been given, so thought I'd buck the trend and agree with the OP....

YANBU. I truly can't believe the responses being given to the OP. From all I've read, it's considered normal for an almost-three-year-old to be given licence to scream blue murder whenever she doesn't get something she wants. When, might I ask, is such behaviour 'reasonably' likely to stop (excepting children with SNs)? Would the OP be given the same responses if her friend's DD was 3, 4 or 5? Should the OP continue to have to grit her teeth each time her friend comes over with her screaming toddler? Should she ignore the negative impact that the child is having on her own child?

The consensus of the this thread appears to allow children to behave as they choose, since their behaviour is negated by age. Discipline and boundaries are apparently rendered null and void.

What I find ironic is that in a few years, posters will be creating AIBU threads about the tween and teenage 'yobs' with no respect for authority and no boundaries, yet will be unlikely to connect the lack of discipline as children with such behaviour as they get older. Parents have a responsibility to parent their children and ensure appropriate discipline. Passing the buck by stating that your child is too "bright", or "unruly" to accept such boundaries sounds, frankly, like making excuses to avoid hard work.

I've ceased a friendship with one parent who failed, time and again, to enforce ANY kind of discipline to her DD. Her DD, very bright and very strong willed, was allowed to stand on tables in the middle of restaurants, scream if she wasn't allowed to (this was at the age of 3), punch and slap her baby sister...the list was endless. Her mother, lovely person, sweet and nice, but totally unable or unwilling to do anything to discipline her. Whilst this is an extreme example, it highlights the way in which children's rights and behaviours seem to have trumped those of everyone else. Thinking back 50 years ago, behaviour like that would be unthinkable and parents would be ashamed if their children behaved in such a way.

Yes, some children are more hard work than others, but that doesn't mean that parents should abdicate their responsibilities with flimsy excuses.

So, to the OP, no YANBU!

yabu

Possibly Habbibu has she been systematically worn down over the years too?

I heartily congratulated myself for my overwhelming success at raising dd1 through her early years - my dd2's wildness is purely down to external factors though you understand ...

I'm going to borrow a great line from earlier this week, might have been Rhubard, maybe Aitch, it was someone feisty anyway:

"satistically you know fuck all about children."

OK?