to expect my friends 2y 10mth old dd not to scream every time she doesn't get what she wants?

[mytetherisending]

Have just had my friend with 2 dcs over this am for lunch and have had to put up with her dd who is the same age as mine screaming blue murder when she had to share/take turns/eat lunch/ been told no toys on the table Am I expecting too much in that I at least expect her to apply consequences when her dd does this i.e. time out etc. She just kept repeating 'no darling, don't do that' 'no darling, you have to share don't you' in a baby voice. This approach certainly isn't working for her.

I am because toward the end of the morning my dd who doesn't scream was trying to copy her, for which she got sent to time out.

I'm much softer with DD when we're at other people's houses. It's wearing, boring and hard work trying to be regimented about discipline all the time. If my DD was hurting someone or breaking something then I'd be stricter but on the whole, getting out seeing friends is a break from trying to be the perfect parent all the time.

Personally I find it a little embarrasing if people make a real fuss disciplining for nothing much when in public. Much better to ignore or distract than to cause a scene.

Plonker, dn1 is only 3, and dn2 18 months, so not worn down yet. dn1 very biddable - dn2 a delightful loon.

You are hilarious dear. You set "boundries" at 12m?

I have an aquaintance so like you. She talked about the naughty spot and time out at 12m, we were all horrified at her attitude and language when her DD was obviously just tired or grisly, normal stuff.

Sadly her DD is older now and so hateful to her Mother, I really think she is quite screwed up now by the kind of staunch discipline applied far far too young that her Mother burdened her with.

You think you have it all in check but you will be in for a massive shock later.

With you rockinsock.

Cut to threads about 'Flossiebossie gubbed my pfb in the playground. Should I report her to the police or stand back and say 'oooh every child has the right to express themselves in a truly free manner ...'

Watch this space.

A delightful loon - love it

That describes dd2 and dd3 so aptly

Dd1 however at the grand old age of 8 isn't nearly so biddable any more ... lol

You see I'm fairly strict about sharing and very hot on any damage to other people/other people's possession.... but toys on the table? Would barely register. Toys left on the stairs where they might trip someone up maybe, but toys on the table would not be a battle worth fighting in my world (3 boys, one severely autistic -more concerned with stopping him spitting on people at the moment tbh).

My lax approach has worked with ds2 - I am frequently complimented by how well behaved he is when he goes to friend's houses for tea. And he's always winning 'best behaved boy/child' stickers and prizes.

But I'll tell you all a little secret it's called personality - they're all different. I do not expect to get the same compliments about ds3- brought up in the same house, with the same rules. A feisty little bugger however.

Wonder what she would think of my dd (2.3) who insisted on eating her dinner with a Fifi Fowertot stuck on the top of a pile of mash.

She ate her dinner though

Lizzz, he will grow out of it.

thanks RSB! I really thought I might have gone mad! (from all the screaming LOL!)

Littlapin I don't have a problem with my friend having a different approach, I just wish she would use a method that works for her dd and stick to it! I have also dealt with many more than 4 toddlers, they are just my dd1 and mindees. I work in a group of CMs and have witnessed lots of toddlers, none of whom would behave like my friends children.

I am not the only one who gets annoyed with their behaviour and it is commented on at most places/people stare. This is something I do feel sorry for my friend for, but how do you help? Do you false compliment them? Listen dead pan and make sympathetic faces while she talks and say nothing? Do you share about how you deal with your dd? Acknowledging that it may seem harsh I have done all of the above at various points in our friendship. I don't know how best to support her. My main irritation is that I don't want my dd to copy her dd. I also don't feel it is fair for my dd to be told off for something ,only for my friends dd to do the same without consequence in my house.

Maybe you need to be friends just when the children aren't there? Adult nights out/chats etc?

Oh children are quite good at distinguishing what's acceptable and what;s not. DS2 (6) and DS3 (3) are well aware that there are things that ds1 does that they would never be allowed to do. It's easy you just say 'well you're not allowed to do it' if it's that important.

I wouldn't stress about things like toys on a table when friend's were visiting though (or at any other time come to that, but with friend's kids I stick to the basics and the important stuff).

Love 'delightful loon' too

Yes - it is called personality - jimjam. You are so right. But ultimately, you have to feel that you can have some control over your kids - otherwise they run into roads, mug old people, spit at teachers blah blah blah.

I'm aware that in saying you have to 'have control' over your kids that people will call me a fascist - but isn't it up to us to at least attempt to ensure that our kids conform to basic standards of social behaviour -sharing, being nice, not kicking in another kids head. Both of mine are inclined to do all of those things but I feel it is my duty to ensure that they know FROM THE EARLIEST POSSIBLE AGE that they are expected to behave in a sociable way. I'm not saying that it's easy, or that it comes naturally to them ( at any age). But I feel that I have to do my damndest and not just throw my hands in the air and say 'Oh, she's three, oh she's wilful, oh she's prone to being a PITA.'.

Yes - in 10 years time she may be mainlining heroin and assaulting people at bus stops but at least when she's doing it a little tiny voice in the back of her mind will be saying 'this isn't quite right' as opposed to saying' I can do what the hell I like and no one is going to tell me otherwise.'

I'll say it again - I don't think smugness is the issue here. We all have grief with our kids - I've had more than my share. But to give up and throw our hands in the air and say 'I'm helpless in the face of my child's willfulness' is doing no one a favour. You are the parent. It's not easy. It's not pleasant. But it's a fact. You're an adult. They're a kid. Take control.

TBH I think the toys on table at mealtimes wound me up more because my friend constantly says her dd won't eat and is picky So how does putting a distracting toy on the table for her to play with help her to hold her spoon/fork and eat? My response of 'when you have eaten your lunch you can have upsy daisy back' [blardy NG causing a riot again LOL!) I felt was the more encouraging response because she badly wanted to keep playing with it. After I said this she started eating where before she was just screaming

Well I have a running battle to keep control of my severely autistic 9 year old (who has spent the day spitting at teachers ironically) so I'm well aware of a the difficulties of a child running feral (the spitting is actually minor compared to the things we've sorted over the years and recently).

I also have quite strict boundaries about certain things,- mainly things that impact on other people and all the children (including ds1- well apart from the spitting) understand that.

But I think you can't stop some 2 year olds screaming (which is what theis thread was about) or behaving badly when they don't get their own way. Not all 2 year olds have learned that yet. DS3 is willful and screams the place down because I don't back down. Now when he was 2 he was dreadful, it was a screaming battle repeatedly throughout the day. Now he's three and a half and in the last month or so has become much more reasonable. He doesn't go straight for screaming sometimes (sometimes he does). I expect him to always be willful and to state his piece, and by the time he's a junior I hope that he will be able to argue his case politely. But to expect a 2 year old to be able to do that is just barking imo.

Well tbh whether or not your friend's child eats isn't really your concern.

Now I had a stand off with ds3 last week about picking a jumper up off the floor (where he'd thrown it). It led to scremaing through the entire mealtime (with ds1 covering his ears and ds2 saying 'my ears are sore'). It was the sort of stand off it's very easy to get into with ds3. Would I have subjected a friend to that? No, I would probably have picked up the bloody jumper myself and saved the full on battles for our own kitchen.

BUt that's my point. For ds3 that screaming is part of the learning process. DS1 an Ds2 never did it, but for ds3 it seems to need to be that way.

If you don't know any other children that act like your friends, OP, is there a possibility that it's not a discipline issue then?, more a personality thing perhaps? I'm much stricter than friends and yet my DD is currently feral. I am consistent but it makes no odds she is just at that stage, it's like someone flicked a switch.

All children will challenge at some point and ime if you foster a very strict, non flexible and opressive regime with your kids then they won't respect you and you'll have a very difficult relationship in the future. That's certainly the kind of relationship I have with my mother and I'm not prepared to repeat it with my DD. I'm not suggesting the alternative is a no rules situation but you haven't said your friend never sets any boundaries.

'when you have eaten your lunch you can have upsy daisy back'

So that's twice you undermined your "friend" in front of her child. And you are actually wondering why she has discipline problems?

I really hope she is a MNer and finds this thread and she drops you because you are no friend.

YABU

No, thats not undermining her, its keeping to house rules which I set for my dd. She had been screaming for 10mins and wasn't anywhere near calming down. Consequently my dd was being distracted and wasn't eating because she was busy staring at her friend in bewilderment. I also had dd2 asleep upstairs who was woken twice by the constant screaming. Consequently I have had to deal with a grumpy tired dd2 for the afternoon.

YABU OP, IMHO extremely strict boundaries cause just as much of a problem as a lack of boundaries. You are being very unsupportive of your friend, and rather patronising because if only she did what you suggested then all would be solved sigh

If you were minding my child and you put her in time out for screaming I'd remove her from your care. But that's just my weak willed and lazy approach for you.

She doesn't set clear boundaries and thats the problem.

Your DD was staring at her friend in bewilderment? Oh do give over. They're two. They aren't friends either. They're two small kids whose mothers regularly put them in the same room.

So the nasty screaming child disturbed your perfect routine? Diddums.

You stuck your oar in when she was trying to do her best to pacify her child (twice), and now you are bitching about her on the internet. With friends like you....

yanda the situation would never arise because I tell all prospective parents what approach I use to discipline. All my parents have been completely happy with it and have seen big improvements in their dcs behaviour in various situations.

Not sure about house rules, tbh - prefer the concept of hospitality, and for the odd visit your dd not eating and your dd2 being a bit grumpy is not a disaster, is it? I also don't go for time out, personally.