to expect my friends 2y 10mth old dd not to scream every time she doesn't get what she wants?

[mytetherisending]

Have just had my friend with 2 dcs over this am for lunch and have had to put up with her dd who is the same age as mine screaming blue murder when she had to share/take turns/eat lunch/ been told no toys on the table Am I expecting too much in that I at least expect her to apply consequences when her dd does this i.e. time out etc. She just kept repeating 'no darling, don't do that' 'no darling, you have to share don't you' in a baby voice. This approach certainly isn't working for her.

I am because toward the end of the morning my dd who doesn't scream was trying to copy her, for which she got sent to time out.

As recommended by proper experts (ie child psychologists I work with not f**king supernanny) and knowing my own extremely willful, detrmined little minx of a dd I only use it for aggression such as biting and hitting.

Aside from this just try to ignore/distract her or suspent promised activity "oh well we can't go to see Joe today then!" whilst undesirable behaviour persists!

Tip; expect other mns are aware of this one, whilst out for lunch today with friend who also has a dd2 (as well as a 5week old baby!) we did a "mummy swap" and sat next to each others dds, worked a treat! Ate veg, sat in high chairs without complaining and only minor spoon banging for a whole meal starters and main courses! the novelty of having another mummy thrilled them!

I hate time out, especially for toddlers.

I would be beyond pissed off if one of my 'friends' attempted to pass judgement on my parenting style and suggest hers was far superior as it had worked on her children.

Personally i never have to use the 'time out' method becuase of my superior parenting skills, so you must be failing all over the place if you have to use it for such minor instances of behaviour, i only have to give ds 'the look'

[queen of smugness]

Sounds normal to me. Sharing is not a natural instinct.

time out doesn't work with my dc2. He hates being excluded, doesn't understand the punishment, so it prolongs and exacerbates the screaming and whinging. If there were no witnesses, I'd just let it pass, but when ther are people watching (if at ta toddler group) you feel you have to deal with it their way (or pretend to, so they don't think it's your fault).

Parents with perfect children.... Bah!

I would say that it is unreasonable to expect a child of that age not to scream at all, as it's very much the age where they are trying to "test the boundaries" and express themselves. Nor would I feel it was reasonable to expect that a younger child (say 18 months) would refrain from this sort of thing.

However, I do think that at nearly 3, most children do understand if you tell them that something isn't acceptable, and if she is doing this persistently, despite being asked not to by her mum, then I would expect some sort of consequences to be applied. Not necessarily time out, but as peacelily said, ignoring/distraction etc.

It's always a minefield, as different people have different acceptable standards of behaviour, and different house rules. E.g. we are quite firm about things like not walking around eating food (ds would always sit at a table to eat), but I know that many friends allow their dcs to wander round eating. So if someone else's child walked round eating in our house, I would try not to tell them off/tell them it was "wrong", but instead say something like "we don't do that in our house", i.e. house rules. I know it can be difficult, especially if your own child says "why is x allowed to do that and I'm not?" I guess you just have to say that different families have different rules, and that maybe there are also things that your dc is allowed to do, but that x is not.

We use time out for our 2 (just) year old as a place to calm, so it's more calm out I suppose. If my 2yr old hits her older brothers she gets to leave the room until she says sorry, which she always does after 15 or so seconds.

I have 2 dc's, my dd now 5 from the day she was born could take her anywhere never had the terrible 2's had great manners was a total pleasure (little madam behind closed doors though lol) .....THEN ds came along he is now 2 1/2 and oh my god what an eye opener he was lol. He is a fantastic little boy with a wicked sense of humour and is loads of fun but he is a screamer and a whinger especially in other peoples houses and in all honesty I don't see WHY I should be telling him off for it apart from anything elses it would do absolutely no good cause it is just the way he is.
Also his talking is coming on a LOT slowere than dd's ever did so this kind of becae his defualt state for telling me he was pissed off.

I actually feel dreadful for your friend having her parenting judged like this and you say you don't make her uncomfortable??? Wonder how great about herself your little tit bits of parenting advice make her feel?

YBU - some toddlers can follow the rules in their own home - virtually none can follow different ones elsewhere. I hate time out & cringe at the overuse of it.

I dread going to people's house for this exact reason. DD has just been flagged as possibly having SN, and at any rate is now having 1:1 at pre-school, but until 3 weeks ago nothing had been raised.

So, 3 weeks ago, I just thought I was a bad mother that time out didn't work for, and had no control.

She is 2.10. She screams, she has started a biting phase for the first time in her life (thankfully only with those who are stopping her reaching her goal ie, DH & I), the first thing I have to do is ask if my host has any shampoo at a low level, because DD will take the top off and squeeze it all over their floor. I could go on.

Believe me, I feel inadequate enough as it is, and cringe at what they must be thinking, but you just confirmed it for me.

And before you say "ah, but your DD has SN, and this girl does not." I would say 'how do you know?' Until 3 weeks ago I would have said that DD was NT but hard work. Now I, and the Area Inclusion Officer & Pre-school, suspect different.

Be gracious, the mum is probably cringing with every scream. She will not relax, and she will not be oblivious, she will just be trying to seem as if she is taking it all in her stride while you merrily judge her

Think a lot of posters are being harsh on the OP IMHO. I don't think she was being overly judgemental about her friend. I actually agree with her that some people have more effective parenting styles than others and that often reflects in the child's behaviour (Speaking as someone who has a very "challenging" DS1 and am much too shouty and non consistent ever to be classed as a good parent)

However, I personally love it when other people's children play up in my house - I secretly breathe a sigh of relief and think "Thank God, it's not just my child..."

I don't think people are being overly judgemental at all

The OP wants someone to inflict her parenting style on very young dcs, regardless of the fact it may well not work and actually make things worse. Anyone who's had their child misbehave at another house knows how embarrassing it is and to think that the person who's been smiling and saying "don't worry they all do it" is then bitching them up on mn is horrible.

I don't think parenting style has much to do with it at all at this age, it's much more down to the type of child you have. Obviously the kind of parent you are has long term effects for good or bad but in terms of stopping a two year old being shouty fuggedaboutit. Some children are much more compliant than others. I speak as an ex smug mummy who thought Gina Ford was the answer to everything and secretly thought worse of those who didn't "do" her. Then dd2 came along.

'I don't think parenting style has much to do with it at all at this age, it's much more down to the type of child you have.'

Think you're spot on, there@ jujumaman

I have a problem with 'I must be obeyed' kind of parenting anyway.
Let them express themselves, just step back a bit.
Sharing wise surely it's better to explain than punish them?

It has crossed my mind that her dd may have a hearing problem as her speech isn't great and obviously this frustrates her because she can't articulate the problem, but would anyone be so brutal as to say, 'have you wondered.......hearing problem/speech problem.'

I was in earshot of her saying we wouldn't be invited back, but was upstairs, a few minutes had elapsed and her dcs were out of earshot when I said she would be invited back and not to be daft. Thus I did not undermine her at all.

On the 4 toddlers (3 at the same time )front, I have had contact with many more and can honestly say that NONE of them scream to this extent. Screaming in play/ tantrum occasionally is acceptable, but not at everything that she isn't allowed to do.

I noticed there are an abundance of posters saying I am being unreasonable and use time out too often, but most have unruely dcs Do we need to ask why? Like I said, I don't often need it now because I set the boundries when she was 1-18mths.

My dd1 does get explanation of what I am not happy with and why, she then gets time out if she continues and is warned that it will happen if she continues. I follow through on every warning so she is not confused by sometimes the consequence happening and other times it doesn't. Thats why I don't have major problems.
The only exception of her pushing boundries was when she realised that I couldn't carry out threats because I was dealing with her new sister dd2 and thus new she could get away with things. Since I have been able to follow through with things she has gone back to her normal amiable self.

i don't think you can expect another parent to parent yourway, even in your house. I also think what you describe is within the bounds of normal behaviour for a 2 year old.

That said, I loathe it when children scream/shriek at every verse end (loathe the behaviour, not the children) and have been known to avoid certain people and their children for a few months at a time (or meet them in the park) until the phase passes, which it invariably does.

Strangely other types of toddler (mis)behaviour don't bother me that much - but the screaming I just can't take. Freaks my kids out too, maybe it's genetic.

So is unwavering obedience and respect for rules really the ultimate holy grail of parenting? They're not qualities I admire in adults, and they're not top of my list for kids.

I loathe time out and the way some parents discipline their kids makes me wince. I try not to show it. But 'good discipline techniques' come at a price that isn't always obvious at first.

Out shopping with my 2 year old today, she lay on the floor in the middle of M&S and wouldn't be moved and went stiff when I put her in her buggy so I couldn't do up the straps, and screamed a bit. I remember seeing kids like her and thinking I would never have one. Ha ha! Of course parenting has a massive effect on the way children behave, otherwise we wouldn't bother with any of our paltry methods for keeping them sweet. But annoyingly, 2 year olds just haven't read all the parenting books we've read, so a lot of them just don't understand where they're going wrong. As soon as mine can read I'll give her Supernanny so she understand what's supposed to happen.

You're reading an awful lot into our posts if you really think we all have unruly children.

Mine pushes boundaries; it's what they do. It's what they have to do, in order to learn. Generally she's very well behaved but occasionally she throws a wobbler and is a little sod. That's NORMAL!!

You are in for a huge shock at some point.

Boundaries at 1-18mths.

What do you mean?

You WILL stay in your highchair til I say you can get out?

You will have your bottle at this time and not when you decide?

You will scream alone for hours in your cot because I have decided it is time for you to sleep.

FWIW I have one v. well behaved 4 yr old who has never had "time out" and 1 "normal" nearly 2 yr old who fights his corner...

It wasn't one incident. It happens at every get together, soft play, toddler group, coffee morning, my house including dd1s birthday party. I certainly wouldn't judge on one incident but when you have to put up with constant screaming that ruins things for the majority it gets on my nerves.