Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To get slightly fed up with post's about 'gifted and talented' children

268 replies

MrsMertle · 03/10/2008 15:58

because I think some of them are just an excuse for parents to show off, when what they really want to say is "look at my DC, they are so much cleverer than yours!!"

OP posts:
saint2shoes · 04/10/2008 21:34

FreakyLadyFrightALot
Whta a cheap shot to bring up that other thread.
but as you have.....
my dd is not a burden she has not wresked her bruthers life and is not *difficult.
I am allowed to post what and where i like. and I have objected on this thread to people comparing sn and G&T, why am I not allowed to do that?
can people only post what you want. do we only have to post negative to plaese you and the other people who want us to paint our lives as shit, and wrecked by our burdens.

jimjamshaslefttheyurt · 04/10/2008 21:35

You need to study discourse analysis and forget 'attitudes' Freaky.

There's nothing confusing. In the first thread the point being argued was about the children being burdens, and more to the point not valued by society at large. Their image of being disposable. Here the issue is about accessing help (which if you look at the other thread will see was mentioned ) and the practicalities of working with a child with significant SN. They're different issues.

But if we're talking about the other thread (and I'd really rather not, it wasn't pretty). I;ll say it again, I have recently met a child with DS (which the other thread was about) taking 9 GCSE's. Many 'normal' kids don't take 9 GCSE's. PLus the other thread was about other disabilities being more difficult than DS. My experiences as recounted on here would back that up!

Although I must emphasise that difficult as he is, I still see my ds1's life as having every bit as much value as ds2's (gifted by some definitions- not mine) and ds3's.

FreakyLadyFrightALot · 04/10/2008 21:35

avena...by what you describe, your child is obviously in an intelligent academical way extremely advanced, and hopefully that will pay off in years to come, for him, I mean...
but I can see how that can have it's problems..different problems, say to a severe physical disability, of course....but still there will be problems...and I can see just how frustrating it can be for you when that is belittled....

Piffle · 04/10/2008 21:36

I can categorically state ds1 has been badly catered for and falls into the top 0.1%
The Reading age was the easy bit, libraries are free
I felt ashamed to go in and hassle teachers who had other kids with ESL or learning difficulties and always always thought that the most resources should go towards those struggling,but always hoping that something could be offered to help my son adjust and be happy at school
11 years on and one teacher at his grammar decided that he wanted more support,tracking and attention paid to the brightest boys and took it upon himself to mentor and lead a panel of likely folks (key stage leaders head of yrs etc) to recognize them
Result
Ds1 has his first ever exceptional performance award.
Despite gettin g 100% in every maths test incl SATS & CATS since yr7(yr10 now)
And all he ever wanted was some praise.
I know because he does it easily some feel his contributions and achievements are worth less,but I know how bloody hard it has been for him.
My dd is in the top 10% bracket and happily pootles along unaware of any label nor the ridiculous G&T nor her SN.
We hope to preserve this!
The label means sod all imvho
You know your kids better than some buzz group

Oh 2 shoes no groveling needed sweety

FreakyLadyFrightALot · 04/10/2008 21:38

see, but people weren't discounting that...people were just saying that maybe that will not happen and people were scared of what could be...

sorry, I only borught the thread up, because of some of the posters of that thread, being so enraged about the comparison....if people had said, oh yes I can understabnd where you have your problems, it would have never occured to me...

FreakyLadyFrightALot · 04/10/2008 21:39

and that was not actually on a personal level...tis no beef with me, I think that is the saying....

saint2shoes · 04/10/2008 21:40

i think it is called stirring

FreakyLadyFrightALot · 04/10/2008 21:43

tbh, I can see both sides...both sides have difficulties for compltey and some possibly the same reasons....
like I SAID ALL kIDS DO oops, deserve to be cred for and educated in the best way they can be....and that really goes for all children, as sadly, I think the schoolsystem doesn't really cater that well for any children....it's a bit of potluck, more then anything....maybe if more money would be put into childrens needs/care, maybe then the future would be far more positive...

seeker · 04/10/2008 21:43

I find this whole topic very difficult. My ds is on the G and T register at school, and, while nobody could deny that he's a very bright little button, he doesn't seem that exceptional to me. I need to make sure that the school is on top of things, and that he isn't allowed to drift - but I did the same with my dd, who is just ordinarily clever. There are a very few (a VERY few) children who are exceptionally gifted or talented - piffle's mathematician or kerrymom's chess player for example, but I do think they are incredibly rare. We need Martianbishop at this point - she has figures.

And I have to say that I do think that it's tactless in the extreme to talk about these children in terms of special needs, when there are children who are doubly incontinent, who can't walk or talk, and who will never lead independent lives. if I had a child like that, I think I would want to machine gun anyone who demanded special need status for their very bright child.

I also think- and I realize that I am going to be shot down in flames here - that there is a tendency to ascribe any problems a very bright child has to their brightness, rather than considering whether the child would have those problems regardless of their intellect.

My brother, for example, always explains his ds's disruptive behaviour by saying that he's bored because he is so much brighter than the reat of his class. He is bright - but he is also a lively and cheeky little boy who needs to learn how to behave - genius IQ or not!

Reallytired · 04/10/2008 21:44

Elasticwoman, how do you know about the accomodation of gifted and talented kids by teachers. Being a parent or going to school does not make you an expert on education.

I am not opposed to a gifted and talented initative, but I do think its a joke in its present form. It is spread too thinly. It should be accepted that some years a school will have no gifted children.

It is quite possible to push a child by coaching/ hot housing to be in the 10% academically, if naturally they would be in the top 20%. There is no way that hot housing could make a child into the top 0.1% Enviroment (ie. normal parenting not hot housing) does make a difference.

For example I know several childen in care, who I am sure would not have learning difficulties if they had had vaguely decent parenting in the early years.

There are children who are gifted who also have complex special needs. The two groups of children are not mutally exclusive. In fact very bright gifted children with disablites are at high risk of getting their abilites over looked due to predujice or lack of training.

For example daft things like Riven's daughter not being reading books with a sensible size of print.

FreakyLadyFrightALot · 04/10/2008 21:46

????saint? was that to me...
not stirring....but I suppose I could say that a million times....people seem to confuse that questions asked/or more info wanted as stirring, when it may just be that...

when I question something, it not about me verbalising my opinions, it's more about thoughts, and trying to make sense of thoughts, surely...in my mind there was literally made a connection, because what that poster said and this thread, which is why I questioned it...iykwim

saint2shoes · 04/10/2008 21:47

"I also think- and I realize that I am going to be shot down in flames here - that there is a tendency to ascribe any problems a very bright child has to their brightness, rather than considering whether the child would have those problems regardless of their intellect"
very good point that.
I find mysef tring to point that out to the experts all the time, they see a title(whatever title) and then use that to blame everything on iynwim. you have to stand firm and say no it is not because of X orY but because she/he is a teen/child/naughty whatever.

avenanap · 04/10/2008 21:48

Thankyou FreakyLady. I tried to explain this yesterday but it didn't come out the way I wanted it to. It just seems that the G&T thread gets alot of stick off alot of people and some really don't understand what it's like for parents. It's horrible to get snubbed at school because of the way your child is and I imagine that parents of SN children have this problem too. We don't have the same problems as parents with children who have SN, ours are mental, tiredness etc. I am often drained when ds goes to bed as it's impossible to unwind. On the outside people just see what they want and think it must be great to have a bright child but they have no idea really. The G&T board gets a lot of people who start posts as a wind up, it is really annoying, none of us can change our children (not that we would want to) and none of us have asked for our child to be this way. I have had to really fight for ds, it has been so hard sometimes.

saint2shoes · 04/10/2008 21:49

FreakyLadyFrightALot yes it was, you have namechanged and come on this thread. then brought up an old thread, imo to stir. and to tell people what they should post.

FreakyLadyFrightALot · 04/10/2008 21:49

yes, behaviour can be related or totally non related....sometimes it possibly can be a little bit smudgy where the borders are...

Piffle · 04/10/2008 21:51

my mathmatical genius is giving up maths after gcse
To pursue Art and 3 sciences...
I suspect. Being stupendously gifted at maths it seems does not fit with him ---
Apparently he hates it
I dunno how to advise him
But after all these fraught years I want him to be happy.

Although after 15 gcses he may lose will entirely
I do wonder about the system a lot

I've never pushed him though
Then now I wonder if I let him down

jimjamshaslefttheyurt · 04/10/2008 21:52

I don't think anyone would disagree with that avenanap. I think the problem with the G&T board is that there are many of the 'my toddler can count to ' type threads. So people do take the piss. I always want to point out that ds1 could do all the counting/reading etc aged 2 that they're talking about and could sing perfectly in tune aged 15 months and is now non-verbal aged 9 with severe learning difficulties. I rarely do (partly because I can't squeeze in past the piss takers) but therein lies your problem I think.

FreakyLadyFrightALot · 04/10/2008 21:54

saint, the name change was coincidently, and I think I explained that? I did not bring it up to stir, for christ sake...it was just a thought that crossed my mind and as it happened within the thread I dared to write it down....
like I said,m was 3andnomore for the longest time, then changed to FairLadyRantALot, as that suited my nature better (not thT i AM A FAIR LADY...BUT IT WENT so well with it, as in lancelot/rantALot...but not a sir, lol) and freakybit just is my halloween name....
it was coincidence....
and I think I posted on the whole thread with the name, but might be wrong....if so, then I am sorry!

StewieGriffinsMom · 04/10/2008 21:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

avenanap · 04/10/2008 21:55

I've had to say on here a few times that being bright isn't an excuse for bad behaviour.

Seeker, I was trying to explain that a highly gifted and talented child can often need the same level of support as a SN child (I'm aware that there are alot of different types of SN by the way). It can be extremely hard to be a parent to any child but even more so for a child with SN/SEN or highly gifted purely because it's a constant battle to get support with schools etc. In the physical sense it's not the same.

Reallytired · 04/10/2008 22:04

"That is crap. My friends little girl who is actually G&T with an IQ of 175 at 4 needs extra support."

How in the hell do your friends's know their little girl's IQ? She is too little to have that kind of pressure steep on her. At her age she should be learning through play.

If she is so bright she will have no problems getting a scholarship to a private school when she is older.

seeker · 04/10/2008 22:05

Well, I don't have a highly gifted child. I do have a child who needs to be given extra work - and he is. His teacher keeps an eye on him, makes sure his reading books are appropriate, that his maths sheets are at the right level, and that he gets properly acknowledged when he does topic work that is well beyond the rest of his class. I don't know what else he would need really. I would MUCH rather any extra teacher/TA time went to the children who are really struggling. My ds can read and use the internet and find out the stuff he wants to know. And if he can't I can help him. Thre are children in his class who are barely literate. Who need professional intensive help more?

StewieGriffinsMom · 04/10/2008 22:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

avenanap · 04/10/2008 22:14

Bright children are ten-a-penny Reallytired. I'm not sure how they would do an IQ test for a 4 year old. ds has never been tested apart from at school so I don't know what his IQ is because I don't need to know. At 4 she should be playing, I agree here.

I would say they all do seeker. If I were a teacher and the world was perfect then I wouldn't let the gifted child just carry on, nor would I allow the ones that needed extra support struggle. I wouldn't allow the ones in the middle just coast either. Every child has needs.

I try to resist the urge to answer the "my child can count to 10 at the age of 2" threads. I just laugh most of the time. I'd feel a bit bad saying ds could do this at 14 months and had taught himself in 2 weeks with the alphabet and the basic shapes. I just let them get on with it.

Reallytired · 04/10/2008 22:16

StewieGriffinsMom,
That sounds a lovely sucess story. Why does she need more support. It sounds like she has had her education needs met.