To get slightly fed up with post's about 'gifted and talented' children

[MrsMertle]

because I think some of them are just an excuse for parents to show off, when what they really want to say is "look at my DC, they are so much cleverer than yours!!"

The NAGT have local groups, maybe they have one near you where she could meet some other teenagers?

Oh the old human rights thing, yes I can relate to that!

I've looked into the NAGT etc nothing up here we are in the sticks.

Maybe it's worth joining so you could start something up? There maybe someone else in the same postion?

It's hard. ds is quite isolated. He has alot of friends at school, they are all quite bright but he only has me outside. He plays with the boy next door but he doesn't have anyone he can talk to. The boy next door is a couple of years older but they get on as if they are the same age and play chess.

I have a few problems with the sale of goods act aswell.

What mabanna said.
If you're clever child isn't being stretched in school then you can home educate. Problem solved.
If your disabled child is doubly incontinent and will never talk there's absolutely nothing you can do. Ever.
And therein lies the difference. You can cater for a clever child in some manner.
I home educated my older 3 because they werent being catered for in school (the G&T thing didn't exist 10 years ago) and after dd1 took Y6 sats at 6 and beat all the 11 yo's the school did feck all.
I like streaming myself.
And yeah, I did think it was tough with 3 very bright children and I probably had a moan too but having dd2 has shown me that I was rather pathetic really. I had nothing to moan about. All 3 older ones can walk talk and wipe their own bums. They will all leave home and live independatly and I will not have to worry about who will care for them when I die. Like I will with dd2.
Cleverness can be catered for - like ds2 started learning the piano 12 months ago at 13/14. He's now playing Grade 8 peices and can play by ear. His teacher is astonished.
But FFS, it can be catered for. And yeah, he's a bit bored now he chose to go back to school and bored waiting for the other kids (they made a set 0 for him) but its hardly life threatening.
Schools, in my opinion, don't really cater properly for any child. One to one teaching at every child's different level is what would be ideal. It isn't going to happen. If you don't like it, home educate. At least you can solve your 'genius' problem. Poeple with SN kids don't have that option.

but ds1s main problems are not about teaching...
he is social and psychological issues which have ended up causing mental health issues.
I cannot make them go away
OK of course they will likely get better in time, but getting him to 21 without a suicide attempt atm seems a major task at hand...
It is like a ticking bomb.

Oh Piffle.

Mental health problems are very common with G&T children. Are the CAMHS team not helping?

mental health problems are pretty common across the range of IQ's sadly enough. Can you get counselling for him? I was on AD's by 16 (and I'm not gifted and talented)
Studies have shown that depression and mental health issues are actually less prevalent in higher IQ people. I went and read them just now. Depression, PTSD and schizophrenia are more common in the 50% of the pop below the average IQ and not the 50% aboce average IQ.
gifted does not = mental health issues.

Lots of people have mental health problems. At least someone with good speech can communicate that they need help.

I imagine that someone who was exceptionally bright, but profoundly disabled would find hard to communicate that they are too hot, yet alone if they are suicidal.

Also I suspect that some people would rather help murder them offer euthenisa, than try and help them feel like living again.

Often the more control you have over your life, less likely you are to have mental health issues. This is true across the IQ range.

piffle - hopefully things will improve for him once he has left school (and presumably gone to a uni where there will be some others with a similar background to this) - also IME once kids get to 6 form age they are a bit more mature and respecting of difference. In the meantime - are there any out of school activities he enjoys? as that can be very valuable, realising that just because school isn't working out socially doesn't mean you can't get on with and make friends with others.

Sorry, I thought I read it somewhere. I may have been wrong. I thought it stemmed from the isolation they feel.

There is a massive difference between the needs of a G and T and and a child with SEN within a school.

From many years of experience of working with a wide range of children I can categorically state that the very bright simply don't need the level of support that the children at the other end of the scale need.

An example. I once taught a class with 4 children who were functionally illiterate. There was no way that there children could access the 'normal' curriculum. They could seldom 'be left' with instructions and left to get on with their work. the lacked the organisational skill, memory and reading ability to be left for more than a few minutes in a lesson. they needed a TA to give them constant support and guidance if they were to access anything of a lesson.

A child at the other end of the scale is massively easier to deal with within the classroom. Being able to read, having better memory skills, and a greater grasp of the topics, it is quite an easy job to keep them stimulated and on topic. In fact, being able to work on their own is often a defining characteristic of the bright child.

I have never yet met a child that I cannot stimulate within a lesson if they are able.

I have, sadly, lost count of children on the SEN register who I, and the rest of the educational system has failed.

The two are simply not comparable

Piffle, I terribly sorry about the situation you and ds find yourself in. Is CAMHS involved? {sends useless hug]

ds spent his reception year in a state school, he was placed on the SEN register within the first two weeks beause (the teacher said) she had to do extra work to accomodate his needs.

the 4 children in my example were 11 BTW. Their IEP targets were to learn the high frequency words from year 2. They were in year 7.

I was expected to get them at access words like 'Chromatography' and 'Photosynthesis'.

They initially had no in class support.

neither did the two boys with dxs of ASD and ADHD.

Or the girl with EAL, who's mother tongue was Arabic.....not a language that I have any experience of!

All there children were in a class of total size 16.

Initially no support, I finally got a TA.

This is the level of support that children with SEN get in many state mainstream schools. the only kids that I have seen supported to any degree at tha level that they need have had parents who have gone to hell and back to fight for it.

It is very bad that the schools and the parents have to fight for support. We are a rich country compared to others yet this tiered system and lack of funding doesn't seem to be making anyone's life any easier. The one size fits all design of the education system has been failing generations of children. It's such a waste of potential.

By not investing in help early enough, these children don't make the progress that they should. And long term we all end up paying more.

None of the 4 non-readers had a dx that rendered them incapable of reading. Imagine the waste in just those 4 lives.

Ultimatly many of these children becaome (understandable) switched off from learning and their behavior can be real prolems. And, TBH, I can understand exacly why the do it....

such a waste

It must be frustrating for the teachers when they have children like this. I had alot of people in my class who had switched off and we all knew about it. The teachers spent more time doing classroom management than teaching, my education was really damaged because of this. It was supposto be the top class.

I think that children who are functionally illeraterate do better at a special school, or least they could be taught in a unit on the site of a mainstream school. A child who is profoundly dyslexic and a child who is cognitively slow or a child with major emotional problems need a nuturing enviroment with small groups. However I think its essential to seperate the three groups of children into different types of special unit.

The MLD special school I work at has one of the highest value added results in the country. In fact they are in the top 10. The children do well because they have teachers who know what to do with non readers. The kids typically start on the p scales (Ie. about start of reception standard) in year 7 and leave in year 11 at about level 2/3 (Ie. about year 2/3 standard) The children also are able to get modest jobs and be independent.

I think if children who really cannot cope were taken out of the comprehensive system then it would be easier to teach all children. Also we would not have the national scandel that 10% of adults cannot read.

The saddest for these kids is that I don't know how to teach a child to read. I don't have those skills.

I'm a biology teacher. I try my best with them, but it really isn't fair on them.

these children desreved better, and didn't get it.

"The saddest for these kids is that I don't know how to teach a child to read. I don't have those skills."

I am sure you would be capable in teaching these children to read MB if you went on the right training course. However your biggest problem is that you have classes of 30 and a packed curriculum.

The school I work in the children get 45 minute everyday on reading, on top of their English lessons. They are typically in classes of 12 children with an LSA. They learn to read in form tutor time. The science teachers know how to teach biology and reading. In fact all the teaching staff have attended courses on literacy whatever their specialism.

Yet the governant are keen to get rid of such schools in the name of inclusion.

I'm sure you could MB. I taught all 3 of my older ones to read (although I have no real idea how I did it) and I am just a mum.

Possibly, if I had the time in the lesson to try. But I didn't.

I was expected to teach them to read at the same time as covereing the first years science course.

I did the 'look say cover right check' stuff. We worked on key words. But in the end they needed someone to sit, one to one, and teach them to read.

Not share 1 adult with 16 children all with a mixed bag of learning needs, and teach them science at the same time

Its wrong that they could reach any year past Y1 without this being picked up and dealt with.
So much of school based education is based on being able to read. What a waste

It is sinful that children should be treated in this way.

My son has dyspraxia and was way behind his peers in reading and writing (he is 8)

He gets 10 hours of 1 to 1 support. last year his reading age increased by 2 years. He is making huge leaps, because he is getting the help he needs at the tight time, ie before the problems become embedded and he switched off

I give up!!!
I have a dd with "official" SN we get DLA etc
Infact the doctors suspected life limiting heart condition at 6 wks of age.
I totally understand how SN is not comparable to G&T at most levels

All I was trying to say was that many kids who are gifted have issues because of that which results in them needing support - I can draw comparisons between dds level of support and ds1s

His needs atm are pressing, wearying and worrying.
Dd is well supported through many elements at school, however her personality is her major asset.

Ds1 has never developed that as he never fitted in...

I know his future is bright and in all likelihood he has a great life to look forward too.

Dds life will become more complex when we have to tell her about he condition, that she will never drive and that having kids poses conundrums for her.

And as Martian said kids struggling need so much more than kids cruising.
But as the patent of one or the other you fight for your child I guess

right not tight!