To think extra lessons for top students isn’t fair?

[Beepboobeep]

My DD’s state primary school has a “top maths club” and “great writers club” for the top performing students in yr 5 and 6 held outside of school hours. There is no charge for this - so it’s free childcare and free tutoring. You have to be invited. This has been running since the second week of the school year and is restarting on the first day of this half term.

By contrast, my dyslexic DD is in a group for those needing more support in writing, also outside of school hours. But they only managed 2 sessions last year and it hasn’t started back up this year. She gets ad hoc in school support; where it happens she misses other lessons that aren’t then caught up on, putting her further behind in the those.

I appreciate these children deserve challenging, but surely that could be done in class with different work and the teacher’s out of hours time, if available, used to help those struggling?

Is this even allowed in a state primary?

Actually our 10year old DD did turn it down on the grounds that it was unfair to other children.
It's easy to "challenge" kids with things like chess club and computer club that are open to all.

Why has the dyslexic group met so infrequently? Is it run by a different teacher? That’s what you need to focus on. The other group is a red herring.

I don't understand this though, the statutory Teachers' Standards prevents variations in opportunities for pupils. Your approach, whether voluntary or not, doesn't deliver an education in a consistent and equitable way.

Those clubs have no influence on your child’s education.
Providing instruction for gifted children makes no difference one way or the other for a child like yours.
However it makes a significant difference forchildren who are often overlooked in thw daily lessons because it is assumed that they "will manage just fine."

However its worth pointing out that the met expectations standard is only a 4 at gcse or above. So far from being gifted many kids will be just passing.
The higher standard on sats of 110 is around a 7.

The school will be pushing to increase their number getting greater depth.

Ideally across the spectrum all students are getting the support they need, but I realise this isn't the reality. I would be asking what interventions are happening in school time as a first step to help my child and how often this is happening. Asking the teacher for very clear input on gaps or areas that need support and gauging how confident they are supporting dyslexic students or whether they have low expectations of dyslexic students. It seems to me after initial focus of phonics in KS1 some pupils get a bit overlooked in KS2 and left to read silently at school when they need to be reading outloud regularly so their decoding and comprehension is being checked, supported and gaps identified.

But that was 1979- it's quite a long time ago, things have changed since then. That level of ability is recognised at sixth form level and those teens are supported with top university applications who don't receive the support at home.

This is right. For too long the academically abled have been abandoned and ignored in favour of struggling kids who are frankly not going to amount to much. If your kid is struggling with the basics then that shouldn't affect those who aren't who deserve to be nurtured too. Get your daughter help. For years the rest of us have had to pay for extra help so our children can thrive. Why should you be different?

So is it surprising that a school known for hot housing is doing just that??

Sometimes the ethos of a school is not a good fit with your child’s needs. Could this be the case for your family?

Well most highly competent kids at 9/10 will manage just fine, this is going to be a class of G&T, if it is, how are we defining that these days.

What a lot of people dont realise is the being gifted is an SEN.

I have a child that was born with brain damage and as a result has learning difficulties and autism. I have two who are gifted both AuDHD. One has finished Uni from RG with a first, the other is in yr 11, predicted 9's in everything. Both ends of the scale are challenging just in different ways. Having a very able kids isnt easy, far from it, I would say in many ways it can be more difficult because there is no support for those kids.

The issue is that if you are not average and managing ok in school, there simply isnt the money to provide support for the outliers at either end.

For what it's worth I agreed with you. I have one conventionally 'gifted' and one very bright but held back by dyslexia. The first one was offered lots of stretching opportunities which he didn't need as he stretches himself through extensive reading/self directed learning. However, I've had to fight for the second every step of the way. Anything extra for her is paid privately as she's not 'dyslexic enough' to be provided with any extra support by the school. It's infuriating. At least you can afford private schooling. I would just keep the pressure on the school to provide extra tuition for her. In school hours potentially better if she's anything long mine and exhausted after a school day. Good luck! Ps you'll get a warped view on here.

OP, you're challenging the logic of a meritocratic society. I understand your frustration with this lack of equity.

I guess you chose the wrong school then.

Unless when you chose it you were hopeful of your child being one of the bright ones who would be given the opportunity to be stretched to their full potential…

OP has clearly stated she pays for additional support out of school. As for “the rest of us” I never paid anything for my DD to have extra tuition, as it wasn’t needed.

being gifted is an SEN

On its own, legally, it isn’t. Someone may have SEN as well though.

I didnt say legally.

Special Educational Need.

Being gifted IS having special educational needs that are often not met.

Legally, they don’t have to be met.

We ended up pulling our DS out of our local primary school and sent him to a private school where he was able to be taught according to his ability. He was bored stupid at the primary and was often used as a TA to other children in his (y3) class. Because he is a summer born, he was in a class with 4x y3 kids, all year 2's, and a few year 1's.

But yeah, let's not bother to teach the brighter kids.

The definition of SEN (special educational needs) is set out in law. You can’t just make up your own definition.

The bright children are often ignored and not stretched in my experience, with any extra time and resources going to those who are struggling. As I was a very bright child who was bored in a non selective state school because the teaching was directed to the middle and bottom children, I am fully supportive of any opportunities for the brightest children.

And that is the problem.

I have experience of both ends of the scale, which the vast majority dont have. "Oh she is clever, she will be fine" has been said to me so often when an educator/doctor gets told about the AuDHD.

Not autistic enough for support, not "normal" enough to manage without it. Whereas my son, who was doing just fine within his own restrictions, was offered a lot of support he didnt actually need. Mentally he was fine, intellectually he was struggling but no support in the world would remove that, physically he struggled badly but again, that wouldnt be changed without a visit from the Messiah. Sometimes its better to say "This is how it is, lets find him the best fit" but some were determined to get him to "do better" when there was absolutely no way he could! But the two gifted kids with mh issues and masking? "They're very intelligent, they will manage just fine". Except they havent and they wont.

You haven't work with these children or parented one? Most likely not.

Thank you!!

Why are people piling on the OP?! The two are not comparable. Her DD is not just getting help to “achieve her potential”, she’s getting it to keep up.

And there are lots of children at the top of the class who are not “gifted”. So they are not necessarily bored all day. And there are lots of ways bright kids can amuse themselves - reading for starters.

So obviously the kids who are doing above average shouldn’t be getting more help than the kids who are below average.

I think you will find that I can, when I know that two of my kids have special educational needs.

Or rather, I can reject and challenge the legal definition.