To think extra lessons for top students isn’t fair?

[Beepboobeep]

My DD’s state primary school has a “top maths club” and “great writers club” for the top performing students in yr 5 and 6 held outside of school hours. There is no charge for this - so it’s free childcare and free tutoring. You have to be invited. This has been running since the second week of the school year and is restarting on the first day of this half term.

By contrast, my dyslexic DD is in a group for those needing more support in writing, also outside of school hours. But they only managed 2 sessions last year and it hasn’t started back up this year. She gets ad hoc in school support; where it happens she misses other lessons that aren’t then caught up on, putting her further behind in the those.

I appreciate these children deserve challenging, but surely that could be done in class with different work and the teacher’s out of hours time, if available, used to help those struggling?

Is this even allowed in a state primary?

The issue here is the lack of support for your send child. It really annoys me that we always aim for the lowest option or blame a totally irrelevant group (e.g. these kids are getting something extra, and the send kids need more help, so stop the good thing). How about improving the send provision AND keeping the gifted challenge class open. It's really rare for kids in that group to be given challenge and additional stretch so that's great - be angry about the right thing, don't take away the good from a different group! It's a really common issue at the moment (e.g. stop housing for migrants because there's not enough housing for existing families - the migrants aren't the issue, it's the housing crisis). Focus on bringing up the areas things are falling over, not taking things away from others.

New to Mumsnet - I wrote a long reply and somehow it cut it off! Tried to write it again and lost steam!
what I wanted to say is that your perspective is shared both ends of the academic ability. State schools provide no additional tutoring in general for 11+ to help get into state secondary schools/grammar schools. Parents fork out thousands of pounds to tutor their kids where the state curriculum is lacking or resources are lacking. I think it’s amazing that the school offer this in your school. It is a very hot topic that you have raised and there will be polarised views. In my children’s school a huge amount of classroom time is given to those with SEN. My daughter is SEN but also top tier at a state primary. The argument could be that actually the top tier children should be helped too, especially if their secondary schools provide options are grammar or private schools. Our options are the former and our school offers nothing to help but does offer a lot of additional SEN time outside the classroom. I’d say your school are a fine rarity offering additional classes to children who may be disadvantaged but gifted in some way and to help them achieve a positive secondary school outcome is fantastic.

I don’t know why people are focussing on ‘accessibility’ and acting as though everyone should be offered the exact same support. Support should be appropriate. There’s no point offering these classes for kids who can’t achieve the average levels. Horses for courses and all that.

My wife ran a maths club for kids to work towards the primary maths challenge. For 2 years it was open to all. A lot of kids turned up either because they liked my wife or their parents saw it as free childcare- they couldn't cope with the maths and ended up messing around. So now it's invitation only. Would your child cope with and/or enjoy either club were they to attend? If so then you've got a reasonable argument for their attendance.The top end kids still need challenge outside what is offered in school time (no 11+ in our area but my daughter was offered an academic scholarship at a very academic school and scored top marks in SATs but was bored stupid during year 6, she would have loved a club that stretched her mathematically).

Well, you said it yourself - it's a grammar feeder school, so they will be keen to preserve that reputation.

From my POV, good for them. If you compare attendance to additional support groups, all too often G&T ones will far outstrip the bottom ones. So if a teacher pours extra into unpaid after school support, and experience shows the bottom set either doesn't show up or shows up for childcare - with little progress at the end, of course they'll support the G&T group.

But you have to go on what you know at the time. You can’t ignore any children showing academic promise using the theory that it may not continue. In the same way that you can’t ignore any children struggling and assume they will just catch up at some point.

You lost me at 'free childcare'. If this is after school teachers are giving up their time for free. Can't win whatever they do.

'grade 3'? Is this in a state primary school?

Do you honestly believe that this a whole class of G&T children? Is that probable?

Musical instruments are assessed on grade level.

Are you serious? “Is it even allowed”???!

it should be commonplace in state schools! We should be pushing forward our best and brightest.

Yes, I know, I reached Grade 8 in Cello and 4 in piano by the time I was 14. What gave you the impression I didn't grtaps that?

Oh dear. So I was breaking the law by coming in at 7.30 a.m. for a small group of very bright year 12 kids who begged me to teach them Latin? Mea maxima culpa...

Yes, what do you mean by ‘grade 3’?

Yes it is because generally they are not being prioritised in the actual class because of less academically gifted children.

Sorry, 'grasp'.

Don't know why you're confused by grade 3? Why are you questioning it if you know what it is? Why would you think children in state schools can't do it?