To think extra lessons for top students isn’t fair?

[Beepboobeep]

My DD’s state primary school has a “top maths club” and “great writers club” for the top performing students in yr 5 and 6 held outside of school hours. There is no charge for this - so it’s free childcare and free tutoring. You have to be invited. This has been running since the second week of the school year and is restarting on the first day of this half term.

By contrast, my dyslexic DD is in a group for those needing more support in writing, also outside of school hours. But they only managed 2 sessions last year and it hasn’t started back up this year. She gets ad hoc in school support; where it happens she misses other lessons that aren’t then caught up on, putting her further behind in the those.

I appreciate these children deserve challenging, but surely that could be done in class with different work and the teacher’s out of hours time, if available, used to help those struggling?

Is this even allowed in a state primary?

Oh and DD’s primary - 3 form entry state school with a wide range of social backgrounds, including 40 percent EAL children - had loads of after school clubs that were invitation only, including lots of the sports ones, coding club, school magazine, etc. The school had a system of applications and you weren’t guaranteed to get any of them! At various times DD was disappointed not to be able to join coding club, netball club, school magazine, Spanish club etc. because other kids were chosen. The school looked at getting a mix of kids (including PP kids) in each club, so that talented kids and kids who hadn’t had an opportunity to do the club before could have a slot. (Some of the sports ones were always for the kids who were really good at a particular sport, like football team).

It’s a bit odd that some posters are generalising their own experience to all state primaries and suggesting this never happens!

Imagine the awful din they would create.

Teacher is doing this in their own free time. Maybe they wanna have nice time doing fun stuff they dont get to do in class. Feel free to take unpaid overtime to do something someone else wants you to do.

Yes I agree but the original debate centred around not providing for the highest achievers or those with noted potential to do so

Education isn't confined to schools.
What help is she receiving at home ?

Which is not going to be a high percentage of children playing an instrument. Have you missed the evident decline in opportunities to take part in the expressive arts in state schools? Have you missed the prioritising of the core subjects at the expense of expressive. Have you missed how performance data is shaping how resources are allocated in schools, further eroding access to the expressive arts?

It simply isn't the case that music lessons are affordable for a vast majority of parents, I don't understand how you can argue that it isn't when it is so blatantly not the case.

You have literally just done the same!

I can't imagine why you think schools doing something is a persuasive argument. Labels of talent at 9 and 10 are mostly misleading, you inadvertently pointed that out with your previous definition of G&T I.e. just means working at a "Greater Depth"
At this age what people interpret as Talent is more down to frequency of exposure, the child's self confidence, the socially adept child is going to be better at unintentional self promotion, your parents level of education and your maturity. Adolescence hasn't even happened which changes things again, you certainly see late Bloomers and the opposite decline with early 'talent' as it rarely based upon innate ability when kids are very young.

OP is providing significant extra support at home, including substantial tutoring, and has said so clearly.

The number of children being categorised as SEN has skyrocketed in recent years so support has become spread too thin BUT there is far more support overall for SEN students than for high achievers. I had to pull my son out of his state primary school and put him in a private school because they simply could not help him. He was finishing his work half way through the lesson and spending the rest of the time helping his classmates to catch up. As sweet as he was about it, it is not ok to use a 9 year old as an unpaid teaching assistant and offer him no challenge. The private school was amazing and able to cater to all levels (he won a full bursary - could not afford it under the new rules).

The number of children being categorised as SEN has skyrocketed in recent years

There hasn’t been such a big increase in the proportion of DC with SEN as some like to believe. The most recent statistics released this year show 20.8% of pupils have SEN. In 2010, it was 20.9% or 21.1% (depending on which statistics you look at - I think it is a rounding issue adding up SA, SA+ and SSEN). In 2005, it was 18%.

PIP is for working age adults, not children. It is DLA for children and many dyslexic DC won’t be eligible. Although some are.

I clicked on YANBU until I read this! (Changed it now) So right! All provisions are for low ability/sen and deprived, about time the G&T (gifted and talented) got some love!

I don’t think you’ve read my post properly. My description of DD’s primary is not to say all schools are like that (where have I claimed that?) But several posters on this thread were saying this couldn’t possibly and shouldn’t be the case (invitation-only clubs).

I don’t think you quite understand the point about G&T. At one point it was an actual designation with a target percentage. “Gifted” and “Talented” actually had very specific meanings in the context of that policy. Greater depth is a different way of putting something similar in more recent education policy, though it isn’t quite the same. They have both changed meaning over time in education policy. But the idea that you couldn’t have a whole class of “G&T” students relies on your own assertion, and assumption about what you think “G&T” means.

16 year olds attending college can claim PIP.

It is a shame they are not doing more for dyslexic children, but it is great they have this special club for those who are gifted at maths.

It could be that they would need a special needs specialist for dyslexia but have more easy to come by resources for the maths.

In England, the percentage in primary schools has gone up from 13% a decade ago to 19% now. That is almost 1 in 5.

16 year olds in school can claim PIP too. It isn’t just those in college. For the purpose of DLA/PIP, 16y/o’s are considered adults.

OP’s DC is in primary school and a child.

Why should those struggling be prioritised?

The children I knew who were talented at a young age all carried on that way. They did have involved parents but the encouragement they got did not mean their own capacities were not innate.

Of course there are slower developers and late bloomers too

The maths club at school is so good because the school may pick up and encourage little children who show an aptitude at school regardless of whether they get help at home as well. School should help talented children whose own parents may not have recognised their potential.

I do think though that primary schools should also be funded to hire expert dyslexia help.

It’s in the teachers free time . They can choose what they want . I’m an ex teacher and also dyslexic . I’m telling you; gifted kids seldom get extra support