To think extra lessons for top students isn’t fair?

[Beepboobeep]

My DD’s state primary school has a “top maths club” and “great writers club” for the top performing students in yr 5 and 6 held outside of school hours. There is no charge for this - so it’s free childcare and free tutoring. You have to be invited. This has been running since the second week of the school year and is restarting on the first day of this half term.

By contrast, my dyslexic DD is in a group for those needing more support in writing, also outside of school hours. But they only managed 2 sessions last year and it hasn’t started back up this year. She gets ad hoc in school support; where it happens she misses other lessons that aren’t then caught up on, putting her further behind in the those.

I appreciate these children deserve challenging, but surely that could be done in class with different work and the teacher’s out of hours time, if available, used to help those struggling?

Is this even allowed in a state primary?

I’m sorry OP but often schools don’t provide much challenge for pupils who are academically gifted. Let them have something.

Yes, but is it right to prioritise them over children who are struggling?

Of course it's allowed.

The biggest issue is the lack of SEN support here
Have you contacted the SENCO? she shouldn't be missing curriculum time.

Also do point out the lack of parity across the demographics.

But also, have you chased for EHCP? A "my plan" or similar?

I think it would be fine if they were giving the same provisions to those needing additional support and those in the middle, but only giving additional resource to children already exceeding is about supporting the school results and not the children and is poor form, I’d challenge it.

It's not a race to the bottom for everyone. If your child was chosen for ones of these extra clubs would you turn it down? Smacks of jealousy - the fact your struggling daughter isn't getting the sessions she needs is a completely separate issue..

I've been at both ends of this, one high achiever and one with learning difficulties. I think it's good that the school are making an effort with the high achievers as they often get left to plod along with work that doesn't challenge them and it can damage their progress and motivation to learn.
I think when talking about after school clubs, they're supposed to be fun. Usually made up of sports or art clubs. Maths and writing may be fun for people who do well in it. How much fun will it be for someone who struggles? It's more likely to just feel like extra pressure after a long day of struggling with class work. For that reason, I think it's a good idea to prioritise the club for the high achievers.

Make the case for your daughter. You don’t need to tear others down to do that.

This sounds a lovely change. Mostly the higher kids don't get anything extra and the lower levels do.

At my school the higher ones get nothing. Loads in place for those struggling. Obviously as there should be, but so nice to extend the upper ones

It’s allowed to provide top performers with more extra teaching time than those that need more support? Wow that is amazing.

She wouldn’t qualify for an EHCP.

I chased the Senco weekly for a plan. I ended up writing it myself

Wait....prioritising them? Are you saying they are abandoning lessons for others in favour of giving these extra lessons to "gifted" pupils instead?

Or is everyone being stretched to their own individual limit?

So it’s fair that your child is given extra support to achieve their potential but not fair for other children to be given support so that they achieve theirs?

You are being massively unreasonable and very selfish.

But it isn't a separate issue - there's limited resources and they're choosing to spend what they have on those already doing well rather than those who struggle to be on target.

My point is they are giving MORE time to those already getting full marks than those struggling.

We live in an area with two of the top grammar schools in the country (no catchment) and border two grammar areas where kids out of area have to get extremely high marks to get in to them. 70% of the kids will go to grammar from this school. They are already heavily tutored outside of school. When asked how they spent the summer it was in 11+ camp 5 days a week.

Why should they get more free teacher hours on top than children that need more support?

It’s more than allowed. It is encouraged because it was finally recognised that the higher ability students were being unfairly neglected in favour of the children that struggle. They are all equally deserving of teaching that is right for them.

This.

Exactly - it’s a hot house primary school, top 60 in the country. Obsessed with results

This is my point - surely more teacher time should be given for the children struggling. I’ve been pleading for this support and it’s not been forthcoming.

So what about support for those that need it? What if that is totally lacking?

I doubt they're spending limited resources on it - teachers will often be expected to run a fun afterschool club (for free), and for lots of children who love maths, a maths club would be fun. And for a teacher too, if they love maths, it might be relatively enjoyable to explore things not on the curriculum, in a fun way, if they have to provide an after school club on their own time. The children might be working on maths challenge competitions etc. It's like an extra football club after school for those chosen for the school team - they often run sports training for those chosen for a team, instead of catch-up sessions for children who might be dyspraxic or something, and people don't complain about that. Similarly with maths competitions - people would complain more if a teacher took time away from teaching during the day to work with a small group like this, so why not do it after school.

Totally different from a child not getting suitable individual support, which you can push for. Dyslexic children vary so much, and it would be hard to have an after school club that catered for individual needs in the way she would likely need. And as someone else said, these clubs are generally done for fun

It's not really childcare, either, as like most clubs, parents can't necessarily rely on it always being available for always running, in the way they can with a paid provider.

What makes you so sure the children attending these clubs aren't ones needing a confidence boost or extra support themselves?

They are the kind of names I would give groups to motivate the kids that need it to attend.....

Why should they get more free teacher hours on top than children that need more support?

Because the regular lesson content was not enough to stretch them to their full potential.

For everyone else, the regular lesson content was enough or more than enough for them to work on.

It’s no less fair than it going to your child, and it seems like you would be happy enough with that!

The struggling students generally already dominate teaching time, giving them even more time wouldn’t exactly be fair.

Yes, exactly. Offer these clubs fine, but why are children that need support not offered it?

The children offered this are already heavily tutored outside of school (most go to 11+ five days a week in school holidays and tutoring 2-3 sessions a week during term already).

What support do they currently get, in their normal daily classroom? Any interventions?

Yabu. The last decade or so has seen the top kids completely ignored, used to help struggling kids, bored because the curriculum is too easy for them, and it seems every single extra resource goes to the struggling kids. I’m glad to see at last a bit of balance returning to the classroom.