To think some men raised by single mothers develop a distorted idea of masculinity that can manifest as misogyny?

[WryJadeWren]

I wonder whether some boys raised by single mothers, particularly where there has been no positive male role model in their lives, grow up with a distorted understanding of what masculinity actually looks like.

In some cases, I wonder whether they grow up simultaneously putting their mothers on a pedestal while harbouring quite negative attitudes towards women more generally.

I’ve also noticed that some men can be fiercely protective of their mothers, yet hold deeply misogynistic views about other women. It’s an interesting contradiction.

I’m certainly not suggesting that all men raised by single mothers are misogynistic, or that having a father in the home automatically produces a well-adjusted man. Plenty of misogynistic men grow up in two-parent households.

But I do wonder whether the absence of a healthy model of masculinity, combined with certain mother-son dynamics, can contribute to this.

AIBU to think there’s something in this?

@Pieceofpurplesky , your dad was his grandad. My FIL was a great role model for my DC but he wasn't their father.

Plenty of fathers are waste-of-space dads. Mine wasn't a waste of space but in some ways he wasn't the best role model. Mum had Dad on a pedestal and did the grafting, the gist was men are better than women.

I haven’t suggested that a child raised by a single mother cannot have positive male role models. In fact, I’ve explicitly said elsewhere on this thread that those role models can be grandfathers, uncles, teachers, mentors or other men in a child’s life.

Your experience with your son illustrates that point perfectly. Equally, I agree that having a father physically present doesn’t automatically mean he’s modelling healthy attitudes towards women. In some cases, quite the opposite.

What interests me is the particular contradiction I’ve observed in some men who appear to idolise their mothers while simultaneously expressing deeply misogynistic attitudes towards other women.
I’m not suggesting that single mothers are responsible for those attitudes or that boys raised in single-parent households are inherently more likely to become misogynistic.

My point was that it doesn't need to be a dad to be a positive male role
model. That boys with misogynist dads are more likely to be misogynistic

It's far from indisputable.

Poor outcomes for sons of single mothers, when they do occur, arise from impoverishment of women raising children alone and from the MH problems, including cPTSD, that women suffer when they have been involved with abusive men, whose example the sons sometimes emulate.

Yes to this!

Well said.

I don't disagree with you but ...
what I saw growing up was mum doing most of the work and dad being great just because he was a man.
I don't think either was a good role model in that way.
(They weren't shit parents, far from it, and it was a long time ago.)

I might have had positive role models but what I saw daily at home was what I saw as a healthy relationship and good parenting, and I don't think it was perfect.

My uncle brought up his children alone and the children were far more well-balanced than me. From what I saw he did an amazing job. (My aunt died young and despite having young children he did it alone. Amazing guy.)

What interests me is the particular contradiction I’ve observed in some men who appear to idolise their mothers while simultaneously expressing deeply misogynistic attitudes towards other women...

This, as someone else has just said, echoes the old notion of women as Mothers or Whores, the Madonna/Whore complex iirc. So a boy can admire his mother and still have contempt for other women as they are NotMother, they may let him down or make demands upon him. It becomes easy to scorn women as being of less value as they cannot reach the unconditional love levels of perfection his Mother seemed to have. Bit late for me to go into rn but search up Madonna/Whore Complex and see what you find. Having said all that, I agree that reframing the issue as absent fathers as opposed to single mothers might have sent this debate down different paths.

Totally agree with you OP. Obviously it's not always the case but it is often the case.
And obviously no, those mums aren't "to blame" for misogyny, (🤷 what a simplistic logical leap some PPs have made) but mums do have agency, and in some of those families teenage boys are very much encouraged to take on the role of 'protector' without any idea of how to do it. This leads to problems.
Also, obviously, misogynists can spring from all sorts of other families.

Some do.

Some boys raised by parents in couples grown up with equally misogynistic attitudes. I would say a proportionate amount of each.

I’m unsure re the sons of single fathers as there are so few of them.

@ThatRatBastard , yes, I think that was what I was trying to get across but too tired to be articulate.

There are a lot of different factors like Madonna/Whore Complex, mummy's little prince, arsehole dads ... parenting styles have changed a lot.

In my experience of life I have found that misogyny and entitlement walk hand in hand. And the afflicted men come from all walks of life - rich/poor, smart/thick, educated/ignorant - everything between the extremes and more besides.

I think a lot are quite genuinely born that way, some are educated into it by those around them, some absorb it from surrounding culture - porn etc. I think that once they are that way, they cannot be changed, only managed.

Sexism is different - I think that can be worked on.

The problem does not come from women though.

I would frame it as, lack of male role model.

Rather than single mother households.

Because you can be a single mother, and still give your son great male role models. Grandfathers, uncles, sports coaches, teachers etc.

But yes, if you don't, it is an issue.. because when the boy becomes a teenager, he will go searching for a man to look up to, and it might not be a good one...

(Although it is worth adding that a bad dad, who gives a poor male role model, is also a very bad thing).

Is that down to poverty though. I find it hard to imagine there are a whole load of men out there not indulging in casual sexism in front of their sons, promoting football as the be all and end all shouting aggressively at the screen and quietly doing 50 % of the housework.

In my experience men raised by women are very comfortable around women and very accepting of their own feminine side. They often do better than men raised by men and women together.

Not true for my adult sons.

I'm extremely lucky that my ds's have positive male role models in their lives. Not their father, but their uncles, grandfather, step dad and his dad are all wonderful male role models for them

In my experience some of the kindest and most empathetic men I’ve met have been raised in single mother households, my own dad being one of them and back when it was a huge taboo. Not a misogynistic bone in that man’s body, I was so lucky. However despite that one of my brothers, granted not from a single mother household is misogynistic, I can’t stand being around him. I often wonder why or where it came from because he wasn’t raised to be that way. My ex is another misogynist and he was in a 2 parent household, but his mother was extremely dominant and his father very weak. I absolutely hate to say it because now my son has similar misogynistic tendencies and has from a very young age, fiercely protective and loving towards me, when his dad isn’t around, but his views on woman and girls is shocking. I spend many hours going over it with him, also still the “banter” between boys in secondary school particularly, is deeply racist, homophobic and misogynistic, conversations that get repeated and group chats are awful. I don’t know the family background of each individual but I do know that a couple of my sons friends who participate aren’t from single mother households.

Most men I know raised by single mothers are the exact opposite because they see what their mums go through 🤷

Did you read the same post as me? Because the obvious conclusion I drew was that it was the fault of the absent fathers and lack of men in role model roles (eg teachers).

The single mum literally can’t be a male influence, so not sure how you drew the conclusion it was her fault.

I had to do an investigation at work into a male spouting misogynistic views, some of his comments were quite extreme/incel. During the investigation it came out from various sources that he essentially worshipped his mother to an unhealthy degree and would compare women in general to her. His parents were still married and he was an adult. I don't think it's about single mums.

Completely agree. Misogyny rears its head in every background and walk of life. This isn’t a single mothers raising sons issue. This is a children growing up and witnessing sexism and misogyny everyday issue. From all sorts of people in their lives. All children- girls and boys- need strong role models of both sexes.

In fact there was a thread just the other day about a very challenging young man and many MN posters were saying how it’s all OPs fault for how she raised him and didn’t make him go to school etc, rather than put any blame on the parent that wanted nothing to do with him
Posters were not saying it was all of her fault. Posters were saying she'd made serious errors in the past, which she herself acknowledged. That was the whole point of the thread. She was however expecting everyone one else to make things better and struggling to take responsibility.

There are many misogynistic women on here because they talk about how men have their heads turned but predatory women and blame the OW for the reason their DH cheats
It's getting really pathetic how women who dare say anything negative towards another woman is now automatically labelled mysogynist! It started with accusing any men who dared not to think women are especially wonderful mysogynist, now it also extends to women!

This drive by a number of women, most often millenniums, to want everyone to worship women just because they happen to be born a women, is getting ridiculous.

I think there is so much negativity surrounding anything regarded as feminine, that it is easy for males, and in some cases females, to hold misogynistic views.
Just look at the baby name threads.
Women considering giving their baby girl a boys name. Yet how many of those same women would give their son what is regarded a girls name?
Right there, full on misogyny.
I have seem women take toys from their sons declaring ‘ You can’t play with that, i’s a girls toy!’
I think the best way of raising children is with parents who value females just as much as males.
How many men watch womens sport? Or films with a female lead? Or female comedians? Or read books written by women? Or name women when recommending famous people etc?
Again another indicator of how misogynist a person is.

No it will be the dad

Not all men are misogynistic but if they're picking it up from anyone it will be the male.

The misogynistic young men more likely to have misogynistic dads than misogynistic mums.

When my son started in reception, he was asked by another boy why he had a girls water bottle -it had a pink lid-so this is 4 years old.