To think some men raised by single mothers develop a distorted idea of masculinity that can manifest as misogyny?

[WryJadeWren]

I wonder whether some boys raised by single mothers, particularly where there has been no positive male role model in their lives, grow up with a distorted understanding of what masculinity actually looks like.

In some cases, I wonder whether they grow up simultaneously putting their mothers on a pedestal while harbouring quite negative attitudes towards women more generally.

I’ve also noticed that some men can be fiercely protective of their mothers, yet hold deeply misogynistic views about other women. It’s an interesting contradiction.

I’m certainly not suggesting that all men raised by single mothers are misogynistic, or that having a father in the home automatically produces a well-adjusted man. Plenty of misogynistic men grow up in two-parent households.

But I do wonder whether the absence of a healthy model of masculinity, combined with certain mother-son dynamics, can contribute to this.

AIBU to think there’s something in this?

Six of one and half a dozen of the other.
It's like having alcoholic parents will likely make you an alcoholic or put you off alcohol. Both can be true.

Yes. Father abandonment, whether physical, emotional or financial, can be a significant factor in how some boys develop their understanding of masculinity and relationships with women. I don’t disagree with that at all.

My point is about how some men develop misogynistic attitudes despite being raised by women, sometimes even putting their mothers on a pedestal while showing very little respect for other women. As I said, I find that contradiction particularly interesting.

But you're only making assumptions.

It’s an observation and a question I’m putting forward for discussion, not a claim that I’ve established through research.

I don’t disagree that boys raised by misogynistic fathers can go on to develop similar attitudes. In fact, that would be another example of how someone’s upbringing can influence their understanding of masculinity and relationships with women.

What interests me is why some men who have been raised predominantly by women can still develop deeply misogynistic attitudes, sometimes while simultaneously idolising their mothers.

Your experience is valid but it’s also anecdotal, just as you suggest mine may be. I’m interested in discussing the different dynamics rather than suggesting there’s only one route to misogyny.

It’s not a dig at anyone. It’s an information exchange. The OP’s words are intended to be taken literally. They have spotted a pattern and are interested in discussing it. The problem is, most mumsnet users don’t come here for an information exchange, they come here for a social exchange. So they immediately scan OP’s post for subtext and come to conclusions such as they are having a dig at single mothers or trying to act deep and philosophical as a kind of social flex.

OP my opinion on this is that men who do this may be categorising their own mother as “one of the good ones” as they see them as fulfilling a traditional role - i.e. a caregiver. Or they may simply develop a single exception rule, in the same way that some parents say things like “I love my kids but don’t like other people’s kids”.

For the “social” posters. I’m not implying any blame towards mothers, single or otherwise, in the slightest, or aligning myself with or against any group.

Where did you meet all these men raised by single mothers and what is your sample size?

What are the men like who were raised by single dads (assuming similar sample size).

Some men will have issues. Just like some women do. It isn't relevant if the single parent was male or female. It's about personality and parenting skills. Plus, I'm sure studies showed parents don't even influence the outcome of children - isn't it peers.

I’m not presenting a scientific study or claiming to have a representative sample. I’m raising an observation for discussion, which is rather the point of this forum.

I haven’t made any comparison with men raised by single fathers so I wouldn’t claim to know whether the same dynamics apply.

However, I disagree that parental influence is irrelevant. Parents, peers, wider society and individual experiences can all contribute to how someone develops their attitudes towards gender and relationships. It’s not necessarily one or the other.

As I’ve said, what interests me specifically is the contradiction of some men having an almost reverential attitude towards their mothers while simultaneously holding deeply misogynistic views about women generally.

That doesn’t mean single mothers cause misogyny nor does it absolve men of responsibility for their own attitudes.

It’s always the women’s fault, never forget

It’s well known that boys growing up without a father figure have much higher likelihood of negative outcomes. Thats a problem for all of society.

Your experience is valid but it’s also anecdotal, just as you suggest mine may be. I’m interested in discussing the different dynamics rather than suggesting there’s only one route to misogyny
Exactly, that's why I would never make statements as you do here. You're not even saying what makes you think the way you do. What IS your experience?

It's far more likely that boys growing up in homes where there is an abusive misogynistic man present will grow up to emulate that.

I think it stands to reason that lacking a positive male role model is a problem.

The problem however is the man that is the poor role model or is not present in his son’s life, not the mother who stayed and is doing her best.

It's a myth based on a very small study involving single mothers in extremely impoverished areas of American cities where many of the male role models including the boys' fathers were gang bangers or small time criminals or abusers or men with a very low level of education.

It has been trotted out for decades by Menz Rights organizations and by lawyers focusing on representing fathers in family court as an argument against women gaining sole custody of children, especially when the woman has made allegations of abuse against the man.

This is indisputable.
But sensitivity around ‘single mothers’ means it is not allowed to be discussed.

Definitely the case for one of my two DBs but I think it was a mix of factors: social outcast, struggled to hold down a job, drug and anger issues, awful role model from our dad. Basically struggled to get near women and seemed to idolise one unattainable (uninterested/not single) girl at a time. Easy prey for the manosphere.

Hmm, my expierence is the opposite. Most of the men I know who were raised by single mothers are gay. Now this might be a coincidence, I'm not saying there's anything scientific in it but I'm talking about 10+ close friends and colleagues.
I've found they're very understanding of women and quite protective in general, they will always be an ally and fight my corner.

I'm on page 4 of a Google search, @WryJadeWren and no research is popping up to support your hypothesis just Reddit, Facebook, personal websites, anecdata.

Andrew Tate was raised by both parents.

Is it though? How well known? How much higher? Dig as I might, I can't find data to support this.

This is the best I can find, and it's a meta study, so can be problematic - if you evaluate shit research, you get shit results.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3904543/

Hmmm ....there is research that suggests that whilst children in single parent thouseholds have worse outcomes than those in two parent households, the actual gap is no way near as big as we tend to think it is. Better said, children from all sorts of families can have poor outcomes. The majority don't.

Misogyny is a problem for society. Not single mothers. Remember we are the ones who stayed and didn't opt out of the hard work. Many of us bear the financial burden of children alone. My children saw me abused by their father but I'm the problem?

Society needs to stop tolerating the abandonment of children by fathers - always excuse after excuse....she pecked his head, she won't let him see them (without ever going near a court room)...she earns more so why should he pay, she got the house so why should he pay.....all backed up by mothers, sisters, and other assorted female friends and colleagues. Always the whisper of 'you really don't know what goes on behind closed doors'. The suggestion that if she had somehow been 'better', he would have been 'better' himself. If I told my story here there are those who would call me a liar. If I presented it as a soap opera storyline, it would be dismissed as 'unrealistic'. It is hard to have a voice in our society because single mothers and their experiences are never acknowledged let alone believed.

My boys have been very clearly told that should they abandon a child in my lifetime, any inheritance they are due will be left to the child. I am very clear about that. Fortunately, they seem decent young men with 2 out of 3 rejecting their father entirely. The third tolerates him and sees him as little as he can get away with. I am not sure what else I could have done? No siblings, no grandfather.....me and my mum muddled along as best we could. I didn't introduce any men and I worked my backside off to give them what they needed. What more are you asking of women like me? Maybe examine your own prejudices about what a single mum and her children look like? How you think they should be treated? What might be supportive rather than activley seeking to work against them? I am so sick of being blamed for all of society's ills when no one will even listen.

Eh? Then what relevance to a thread about single mothers? 😂

It is weird how some men can treasure their mother, yet show immense disdain or even hatred for other women. But I haven't found anyone raised by single mothers to be in this group (and a search has brought up no research).

Men I have known like this were raised in what I would refer to as 'middle England' families, with a traditional mother and father dynamic. I can't wrap my head around one in particular, whose mother can do absolutely no wrong (even when she refers to our absolutely perfect newborn as "deformed"), but who treats other women in his inner circle dreadfully. (He presents a charming Mr Bean-type buffoon image to outsiders.)

The more interesting question is how they can so dissociate their two views; not whether being raised by single mothers is somehow causing their behaviour.

It's the framing of the question - in terms of single mothers, not absent fathers - that attributes responsibility onto the women rather than the bloke who has disappeared off over the horizon to somebody new and shiny.

Well no, it's not indisputable. But why am I the problem? Because you assume I am uneducated, never married or married young, that my ex was always awful (he wasn't, only when he was done with me did he turn abusive), that I was 'on benefits', that I never worked, that my children were always in trouble, that I lived in a crap area in council housing ....? Where is the logic that even if I had been all of that, it would follow my children are misogynistic?

The women that perform a useful function in a man’s life will be shielded to a degree from their feelings about women in general. My brother loves my mum and she, my sister, his daughter and another friend of his are the only women that escape his overt misogyny. I don’t pander to him so I and the rest of the female population are derided by him. He grew up without a father figure and is deeply misogynistic. And racist, homophobic, etc. He hates everyone, not just women.