To think some men raised by single mothers develop a distorted idea of masculinity that can manifest as misogyny?

[WryJadeWren]

I wonder whether some boys raised by single mothers, particularly where there has been no positive male role model in their lives, grow up with a distorted understanding of what masculinity actually looks like.

In some cases, I wonder whether they grow up simultaneously putting their mothers on a pedestal while harbouring quite negative attitudes towards women more generally.

I’ve also noticed that some men can be fiercely protective of their mothers, yet hold deeply misogynistic views about other women. It’s an interesting contradiction.

I’m certainly not suggesting that all men raised by single mothers are misogynistic, or that having a father in the home automatically produces a well-adjusted man. Plenty of misogynistic men grow up in two-parent households.

But I do wonder whether the absence of a healthy model of masculinity, combined with certain mother-son dynamics, can contribute to this.

AIBU to think there’s something in this?

I agree that men who are absent or model misogynistic behaviour can have a significant influence on how boys develop their understanding of masculinity. I’ve never disputed that.

The reason I raised single-mother households was because I was interested in a particular dynamic I’ve observed: some men who have been raised predominantly by their mothers appear to idolise them while simultaneously holding deeply misogynistic attitudes towards other women. I’m interested in how that contradiction develops, including the possible influence of father absence, family dynamics and wider social expectations of masculinity.

That doesn’t mean I’m attributing responsibility to single mothers or suggesting that the absence of a father is inherently worse than having a misogynistic one present. Nor am I claiming this is more prevalent in single-parent households. I think it’s possible to examine a particular family dynamic without suggesting that the parent who stayed is responsible for the behaviour of the parent who left or indeed the attitudes of their adult son.

How many threads blaming women for misogyny must we have in one day?

The Manosphere with Louis Theroux explored this.

The Tate brothers had very low contact with their dad. HS Tikky Tokky, Justin Waller, Myron Gaines, Sneako, Ed Matthews are all super toxic and had no male role model.

I also agree that some put their mums on pedastools because most of these women probably went above and beyond trying to make up for their shitty dads. They then have this expectation that all women in their life should cater to their every whim.

I also bet there are many who also publicly praise their mums and put on an act of adoring them, but have been absolute shits behind closed doors. Abusers don’t admit to abusing!

My ex adores his mum. She knows full well he’s as toxic as lake karachay, but can’t bring herself to accept it. She tried her best to raise him and can’t bear not to believe that “deep down he’s a good person”, even though she tips toes around him just like everyone else involved in his life.

How many times must we conflate examining the factors that shape men’s attitudes towards women with blaming women for those attitudes?

I’ve explicitly said that men are responsible for their own misogyny. Discussing how those attitudes develop isn’t the same as excusing them or holding women responsible.

It is the opposite way around in my experience. Friend’s who raised their son’s alone have a lovely respectful relationship.
If anything, boys raised watching their mother looking after their father, If like many men his father had learned helplessness, the DS would be more inclined to be selfish.

Fathers in this theory are meant to treat their daughters with respect, kindness and generosity- that is what teaches them to look for the same in a man.

I feel like mothers can do the same for their sons and yet their sons can still be sexist. And perhaps they are learning that off their fathers

Why not do some serious academic research into it?

The studies that show kids in single parent families have worse outcomes fall apart the moment you rebase them for economic circumstances and education. The studies who have rebased for that show zero difference in outcomes.

Which rapper was it who said if all women were like his mum, he wouldn't need to write the songs he's written?
I don't know if it necessarily affects boys or girls if they have other positive role models-a lot of children lost their dads in the war, and as long as they see other loving, solid marriages, they are perfectly able to treat their own partner well.

This is something I have seen in my classroom. Incredibly misogynistic attitudes stemming from the lack of a positive male role model.

This isn't exclusively the case.... But there is in my experience a link.

I’m perfectly happy to read academic research on the subject. In the meantime, I don’t think a discussion on Mumsnet requires the same methodology as a peer-reviewed journal article. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.

Too many variables I’m afraid for it to really be a valid hypothesis. I am a single mother who managed to bring up her son to call out misogynistic views but I don’t believe I’m alone in that.
I also don’t believe I’ve ever had a discussion on what masculinity or femininity is with my (now adult) children, only discussions on how to be yourself whilst being a good person.
If it helps, their absent father seems to have taught both my children how not to act.

This.
Also whilst you are at it blame single mothers for Domestic violence, rape, make pedophiles and murderers.

No. A mother can definitely help with this and make changed! But male role models are also important.

That’s an interesting example and actually gets to the heart of what I’m questioning. Some men seem to regard their mothers as exceptional women deserving of respect, while holding very different attitudes towards women more generally.

I also agree that positive role models don’t necessarily have to be parents. Children can develop healthy understandings of relationships and masculinity through extended family, teachers and other influences. What interests me is why some men develop that distinction between their mothers and other women, and what influences that way of thinking.

So if there is no positive role model (to be honest I've never met a man who doesn't indulge in casual sexism / ignore it when other men do it), why does that automatically mean they become misogynists. I think the male role model thing is overplayed, probably by men trying to make out they're more important than they are.

They grow up watching their mother do everything. The child-rearing, managing the household income and outgoings, the housework, the mental load etc.

So maybe both parents should not go 'i wanna baby now!!!!' And think very carefully and have lots of discussions on expectations and do alot of thinking about how the other parent will be as a parent and what will happen if they split?

Instead of oops contraception failed

I do think that people should think carefully about having children and discuss their expectations of parenthood beforehand. However, you can have all those conversations and still find that someone turns out to be an absent, irresponsible or unsuitable parent.

Relationships break down, people’s behaviour changes and contraception can fail. None of those things automatically reflect a lack of thought or responsibility. More importantly, I’m not sure how this addresses the question of why some men develop misogynistic attitudes towards women, particularly when they simultaneously idolise their mothers.

Maybe there just aren't that many positive male role models out there? In any settings...

You are correct in your thinking but it’s not the single mothers that cause it, it is the absence of fathers.

That’s a possibility and perhaps part of the wider problem. If positive models of masculinity are lacking across different environments then boys may be absorbing unhealthy ideas about masculinity regardless of whether they’re raised in single-parent or two-parent households. It also raises the question of what society teaches boys about being men, particularly in relation to women, and why some grow up believing that respecting their mothers is compatible with disrespecting women more generally.

Surely they idealise their mothers because they’ve watched them have to work, raise children, care for the home, be a taxi service, cope when ill/in pain etc etc.

And they’ve had the role model of a father who has disappeared, treating both his ex-partner and DC like garbage that can just be walked away from.

So it is the MAN who has taught his son(s) to treat women and children like garbage, and the woman who has been forced to be all-things; carer, provider, educator, cleaner, cook etc, which makes the son think that woman CAN do all these things by themselves and then grow up assuming their female partner SHOULD do all these things by themselves, whilst they swan off like their father did.

I think there’s an increasing number of threads from single mothers struggling to raise decent sons .

All mothers? Or just the single ones?