To think some men raised by single mothers develop a distorted idea of masculinity that can manifest as misogyny?

[WryJadeWren]

I wonder whether some boys raised by single mothers, particularly where there has been no positive male role model in their lives, grow up with a distorted understanding of what masculinity actually looks like.

In some cases, I wonder whether they grow up simultaneously putting their mothers on a pedestal while harbouring quite negative attitudes towards women more generally.

I’ve also noticed that some men can be fiercely protective of their mothers, yet hold deeply misogynistic views about other women. It’s an interesting contradiction.

I’m certainly not suggesting that all men raised by single mothers are misogynistic, or that having a father in the home automatically produces a well-adjusted man. Plenty of misogynistic men grow up in two-parent households.

But I do wonder whether the absence of a healthy model of masculinity, combined with certain mother-son dynamics, can contribute to this.

AIBU to think there’s something in this?

Well they probably get to know how to be man by the useless fathers they have yet we are constantly told the red flags are not there

Who and where are these positive male role models? Most women don't choose to be single parents, and often leave because the male in the household is detrimental to the family unit.

Many women stay in relationships where they are treated as second class citizens, you only have to look at the many many threads on here where women are used for their labour. How are single parents producing misogyny any more than a 2 parent unit where a woman is treated as a resource to serve? Rather than equal?

Well, that's one plus for the single mums, isn't it? Andrew Tate isn't on us!

What does that even mean? People change. Like I say, it fits the 'single mums are to blame for all of society's ills' narrative rather than look at the bigger picture

The relevance is that Tate, despite having a father figure turned into a revolting misogynist dickhead.

Do people change or are the signs ignored? And if a father is so terrible why keep on having kids with them

ODFOD. Because....domestic abuse is complex. It is rarely as easy as just leave. Because women are literally locked in their houses (or their movements tracked by phone) so a visit to the doctors for contraception when you're being raped on a regular basis doesn't happen.

But you know, bla.e women for what men do to them. He wouldn't need to beat her if she didn't keep visiting the doctors, would he?

I have to admit it would be funny if the reason behind this thread is simply that your mil is a single mother and your dh wants to spend time with her!! Do you really think no dh is worse than abusive/ absent/ workaholic dad?

I’ve noticed that many misogynistic men were raised by single mothers and blame their mothers for their upbringing, rather than blaming the father that’s not involved.

In fact there was a thread just the other day about a very challenging young man and many MN posters were saying how it’s all OPs fault for how she raised him and didn’t make him go to school etc, rather than put any blame on the parent that wanted nothing to do with him.

There are many misogynistic women on here because they talk about how men have their heads turned but predatory women and blame the OW for the reason their DH cheats.

"I’m raising an observation for discussion"

Yes, I got that so no need to copy/paste again - what you haven't explained, is where you observed this. What led you to believe this? Who are you talking about?

The OP literally says “raised by single mothers”. I’d say that implies a dig.

It was mentioned in an MP's diary in 2005 but slightly differently.

Do you mean children with shitty misogynistic useless dads who take no responsibility for their children's upbringing, despite a strong independent woman doing it single handed can sometimes puck up some of said dads traits?

Yes possibly.

Not the mums fault.

I don’t disagree with much of what you’ve said. A two-parent household in which a father treats the mother as inferior can absolutely provide a damaging model of masculinity and I’ve never suggested otherwise. Nor have I suggested that women choose to become single mothers or that they should remain in unhealthy relationships for the sake of having a man in the household.

When I refer to positive male role models, I don’t necessarily mean a resident father. That could be a grandfather, uncle, teacher, mentor or another man who demonstrates healthy attitudes towards women and relationships.

My point is about how some men develop their understanding of masculinity and why some can idolise their mothers while holding deeply misogynistic views about other women. I’m interested in exploring that particular dynamic. I’m not suggesting that single mothers produce more misogynistic sons than two-parent households, because I have no evidence to establish that comparison.

I’m not married, so no husband or mother-in-law to speak of. You’ve invented an entire scenario rather than engaging with what I’ve actually said.

And no, I don’t think having an abusive, absent or otherwise detrimental father in the household is preferable to having no father present. I’ve explicitly said that the presence of a father doesn’t automatically mean a positive male role model.

My point is about how some men develop their understanding of masculinity and their attitudes towards women. That includes the influence of both present and absent fathers, as well as wider family and social dynamics.
I’m not sure why discussing those influences is being interpreted as an argument that women should remain with unsuitable men.

What prompted the discussion was observing certain men who have been raised predominantly by their mothers and appear to have an almost reverential attitude towards them, while simultaneously expressing deeply misogynistic attitudes towards women more generally. As I’ve said, I’m interested in that contradiction and whether particular family dynamics, experiences of father absence or ideas about masculinity might help explain it.

I’m not claiming to have conducted a study or established that this is particularly prevalent among men raised by single mothers. I’m asking whether others have encountered similar dynamics and what they think might account for them.

I think your question is misogynistic. How about children who are raised with absent fathers?

Not necessarily. An absent father isn’t automatically a misogynist, just as a present father isn’t automatically a positive male role model.

I’m interested in how some men develop misogynistic attitudes despite being raised predominantly by women, particularly when they simultaneously idolise their mothers.
I think that raises interesting questions about how masculinity is understood and constructed, the influence of family dynamics, and the distinction some men appear to make between their mothers and women generally.

I haven’t suggested that single mothers are responsible for their sons’ misogyny. Nor do I think we can automatically attribute every misogynistic attitude to an absent father. There are potentially multiple influences at play.

Always comes back to everything being women’s fault!

Children raised by single mothers often are children with absent fathers so I’m not sure why you’re presenting those as two entirely separate issues. I’ve already acknowledged that father absence, whether physical, emotional or financial, can influence how some boys develop their understanding of masculinity and relationships.

I’m not suggesting that single mothers cause misogyny. I’m questioning how some men develop misogynistic attitudes, particularly when they simultaneously idolise their mothers while holding deeply negative views about women generally. You can disagree with the premise but I don’t think examining how gender attitudes develop is inherently misogynistic.

I don't think misogynistic people necessarily come from single mother households but more they are raised in misogynistic households. When I think about the two most misogynistic people I used to know both had parents from an older generation, One was an only child raised by a single father as mum had died when he was little his Dad was misogynistic, One had 2 older sisters and parents that were together but Dad worked away alot so he was mainly raised by mum, both parents was misogynistic as was one of his sisters.

Well ask a better question then frame it in a less misogynistic way!
So children aren't raised in a vacuum so I guess you could explore exposure to toxic masculinity online. For older people who also are misogynistic it's interesting because divorce rates were low and often the older generations grew up with both parents.
I find it interesting that you're so defensive when challenged about your own internalised misogyny with the question you asked. It wasn't "children with poor male role models" or " children without a father figure" you went straight to single mums.

This would have been a much better thread title.

Whether it's true or not is unclear, but at least it'd be placing the blame at the right door.

I think this will be the thing that people look back on our present culture with disbelief. How men could just do this with no consequences, that the law had powers eg to take CMS at source, and nothing was done.

”No, I’m questioning how some men develop their understanding of masculinity and attitudes towards women, particularly in the absence of positive male role models.”

Surely then, that’s about men who are present but piss-poor role models (which is a lot of men) or the men who are absent (which is a lot of men)?How have you morphed that into being about ‘single mothers’ when the point is obviously and mostly about crap men.

I don’t buy this at all. Misogyny is complex and comes from a multiple of factors in my opinion. For example boys brought up to be the king of the world are often entitled and misogynistic whether they have two parents or not. Boys in particular need firm boundaries because men are already brought up with more of a sense of entitlement culturally.

Then there are men that grew up with a misogynistic father whose attitudes they have adopted. There may be men that have grown up with a mother who stifles them or is overly harsh and that leads to misogyny. So your argument is reductive and quite offensive to single mothers (I am not one BTW)