Does nobody shout at their children?

[ABD13]

I am a mum of 3 (6,5 & 1) and recently feel like I am shouting a lot at the oldest 2, not screaming but loudly shouting their names or ‘stop it’ when they are just not listening, being dangerous or fighting. I then tend to cycle between guilt and overwhelm. I have tried asking nicely but when I have asked 10+ times to put shoes on the only thing that works is shouting their name. Yesterday my older boy (6) was being dangerous while walking home from school and after asking him to stop multiple times I shouted ‘can you just stop it’ so loud all the other mums turned and looked. Other things I shout are ‘come back here’ or ‘get down’ etc. I seem to be the only one doing it though. I model saying sorry, try and explain impact etc and in general do try and ask nicely many times. In general though they just ignore me. I am not sure what to do to improve behaviour and when I google shouting it seems like I am the only one doing it and I need to be better - but how? Those that have cracked parenting, what is the answer? Sometimes I think mine need more fear of consequence but I obviously don’t want to unfairly upset them. How do I dial back the shouting while maintaining any kind of control? Like I get they are tired as near the end of half term and I try and be understanding but one completely ignoring me doesn’t help for the other 2 when we need to get to school etc.

I think this is the problem, sometimes things need to happen quicker too as the 1 year old is upset & it’s cold / rainy out etc and I can’t stand around for hours having a debate - I just need to get everyone home safely.

I rarely shout, it would be an extreme event even when kids were toddlers and annoying. I tended to physically put myself in the way. If they fought, I'd stand between them, pick them up and move them if they were not listening. Or remove to toy or whatever was causing the issue.
It worked for us.

I physically can’t pick up and carry a 6 year old home while pushing a buggy. I can say no TV or no snack but that doesn’t have an impact really.

I'm sorry to say that there is no magic "stern" voice that works for all children.

Children are all different. They're not empty bottles or blank canvases. Some children are naturally very willful, energetic and argumentative. Others are more compliant and minded towards accepting rules and parental authority. I know we are conditioned to think differently - that our children's behaviour is a direct reflection of how good we are as parents. If they're playing up, or not listening, we must be doing something wrong.

And there's a lot of parents that narrative suits. If you happen to have a child that is pretty compliant and responds readily to typical parenting tactics; it's much more comfortable to believe it's because you are a good parent who did everything "right"; that your child's behaviour is something you have absolute control over by being a good parent. But, such parents often have a distorted sense of cause and effect. They truly believe they've cracked parenting and that their children are generally compliant because they have a 10/10 stern voice, clear "boundaries", they use time out or consequences or whatever is currently in vogue.

I hold no ill will towards such parents (although I do internally eye roll when I overhear comments like "I'd NEVER put up with that! I just have to give my children THE LOOK and they KNOW!"). But I would gently encourage you to consider that they may not be the best source of advice when you are faced with parenting children who very different to theirs. You could do the exact same thing as them but get very different results. And they may never have had their systems and techniques tested by parenting a willful child who just doesn't respond to them in the same way.

I will be honest - I used to be very judgemental towards parents of unruly or impolite children and was quite convinced I was immune from this happening to me because I, too, did everything right. I didn't do anything different from the parents of well behaved children who listened first time. I had clear rules and expectations, a stable home environment, I used consequences, I modelled good behaviour and provided good role models, I was very strong on teaching politeness and consideration for others, I used a stern voice where necessary etc etc. But my kids just didn't respond to these things in the same way as some other children.

I used to shout sometimes. Now, I never do. I think it was important to focus on my own self regulation. I realised the reason I used to shout is because of frustration and shame, I had internalised all those messages about how naughty child who doesn't listen = bad mum, and so their non compliance felt so deeply personal and meant it was really hard for me not to shout in frustration. Now, I'm able to handle things really calmly without taking bad behaviour personally because I've stopped viewing it as a personal attack, or something bound up in shame and how good I am as a parent. I use boundaries - but not in a coercive way. It's much calmer - boundaries are rules for me, things I can control - ie - if my children can't behave acceptably when we go to a specific place then I won't take them to that place again until I'm confident they CAN behave. I pick my battles. I don't let fear of being judged by others or my own self judgement send me into a panic spiral. I accept what things are within my control and what things aren't. And I've accepted that ultimately my children are autonomous and as a parent my role is to provide the best possible environment for them to thrive, to model and teach good behaviour, to give them structure and predictable responses. I can influence and shape the decisions they make and the people they become but I don't have absolute control over every action they take. Reframing it in that way has helped me become a much calmer parent.

I moved to Germany and one of the first things I noticed was I felt REALLY out of place when I shouted. I was amazed to see people just talking quietly and calmly to their children and they magically behaved while my then-4yo was overexcitedly running around touching everything in a shop and needing to be yanked out of the path of a passing tram etc. I felt massively inadequate TBH. 13/14 years later (and bearing in mind this is highly oversimplified, but as a point of contrast) I think the difference is that Germans tend to be slow and methodical in almost everything and this is also true of parenting. They are (or seem) less flustered and seem to have endless time for everything because they have meticulously planned this in advance. (This is vvv not me...) They keep a short rein on very young children, but they involve them in life more, although this does mean everything takes forever. When DS1 was a toddler, I would push him round a shop in his buggy, so that he was contained, and I might talk to him from time to time but basically I would be focused on the shopping, not so much on him, because I just needed the shopping to get done. German parents of younger children tend to see everything as a learning experience, so they might for example make several shorter trips into different local shops in order that the toddler could be more involved in the experience and therefore by the time they are 4, they generally know how to behave in a shop. I actually think this is brilliant but I don't have the patience to follow it as much as they seem to. I do also remind myself a lot of native Germans will have their family around etc to support, which we don't. And in general, wages are higher than the UK here, childcare is cheaper, and their child spacing tends to be a bit wider, closer to 4-5 years than the UK 2-3.

Now when I come back to the UK I notice it more - I do think shouting is more normalised in UK parenting culture, perhaps because I think the UK parenting culture leans a bit more towards FAFO (for want of a better term) and perhaps parents are more stressed? So no, I don't think you're alone at all.

I am probably still a bit more shouty than the average German parent but I do shout much less than I did when DS1 was little. I think it probably is on the way out and not a great communication method, but I also don't think it's going to traumatise DC for life unless it's like your main way to communicate with them or you're screaming and terrorising them etc.

That’s where the punishment comes in. Removal of a privilege. Don’t you ever do that?

You need to find the punishment that works. What do they like to play? That’s what you remove.

Also I’d have the 5yo holding the buggy and walking beside me so there’s only one to control verbally.

I don’t recall my Mum ever shouting. She used to bob down to my level, hold my wrist and speak more quietly so you had to keep close to hear. Much more terrifying than shouting! I will add that she was a really lovely Mum but I wouldn’t dare argue when she spoke quietly 🤣

Yes I remove TV time, treat etc but they just do something else. They don’t have favourite toys or anything like that.

I think I am trying to think of a punishment / consequence that will impact them but isn’t too unfairly harsh.

I feel like things like not letting them go to football or dance would have an impact but I feel like that is once a week and if I use it as the consequence for everything then they would never go.

any natural consequences like we will be late for school, no time for tv etc don’t seem to matter

One enjoys crafts and one football but if they didn’t have those things they would just do other things.

For being late to school, the consequence I used was getting everyone up and dressed earlier, so that it didn't happen again. Of course thats a punishment for you too though!

I set off on a gentle parenting route and it did not work with my neurodivergent kids. They need firmness and me being straight to the point and being direct so yes, I do shout at them and no I don't care if it's in public. I have a mum friend who openly tells everyone proudly that she never raises her voice at her son and he is terribly behaved. It is not working for her.

Doing it all the time makes ineffective. They become desensitised to it and home life is miserable. Better to put in effort and avoid.

But sometimes it’s necessary.

I’m all for child-led and what-not. Shouting still has a place, especially for more… errr… spirited children.

It only makes you look weak if you’re frazzled and have lost control - but the same can be said for permissive parents who are terrified to discipline their own child.

Oh yes. It's all very well all the perfect mummies saying " well just get down to their level and reason with them"

Not so easy to do when they are playing up metty hell, you've had a shit day at work and you have a long evening ahead as well

People are human

I was always shouting when mine were younger. We'd be needing to go to school / work and they'd be mucking around again etc. Lack of sleep due to one child with SEN and menopause meant I was usually stressed and shouty.
Very rarely shout now. Unless it's upstairs for something like tea being ready for the umpteenth time.

Multiples (especially more kids than you have hands for!) do often require different techniques. And while I get the idea that insisting on strict compliance makes parenting easier, it's not really a trait you want them to have when they're an adult. So it's really difficult to have flexibility and still get to where you need to be on time.

Multiples generally lack attention, that's what you can give one child more easily. So try to keep them engaged when you're doing things. Talking to the 5 and 6 year olds, asking them about things or, as my mum used to do, timing them running to the end of the road and back while you walk, etc. So you head off the non compliance by being involved in what is, essentially, a game.

I would not worry too much about the shouting to stop things if it works, but if it's getting less effective you do need different tactics.

When talking to all of them, like telling them to get their shoes on, they may really just not hear you as well. There are three of them, it's louder and busier and harder to focus on one voice and when you're obviously issuing a command it might be to the other one so they don't need to feel so compelled. Also, two or more can just egg each other on. Does it make a difference if you use their names? So "Arthur, Amelia, get your shoes on, please." rather than a general "We're going out, Put your shoes on."? And, though I know this is hard because time is precious, just leaving more time to get things done so you don't feel so hassled when it seems to take them an age.

I would also try looking more at positive actions for things like getting shoes on. Things like making it a race. Can DC1 and DC2 get their shoes on before you get the baby's on? First person to tidy their toys bangs the "gong" (which doesn't have to be a gong), etc. And celebrate the "win" for a short while in mundane ways - "First heap of peas to the toy tidier extraordinaire!" or whatever language will resonate with your kids. With a 5 and 6 year old, you'll need to mix things up so one isn't always winning, and praise the second place too if they've put the effort in.

Also, can you give the 6 year old a job to do when you need him to comply? Ideally something that's seen as high status (which you may be able to create by saying things like "No [DC2] you're not big enough for that yet."). Then lots of praise for helping out and maybe the ability to do something you've banned up until now because they're a big boy now who can be trusted with X. (But don't make it an incentive to do the job, you need him to see him stretching to be more responsible as a way of life, not a transactional thing). What's his relationship with DC2 like? Can you have him be more responsible for DC2 without being unfair on either of them? Not in a childcare way, but have him show DC2 how to do things, or help them out with something. Older and younger children often both benefit from mentoring like this.

And some would say grabbing is worse than shouting.

Pretty sure a lot of them are shouting behind closed doors op

Parenting is tough in hindsight i wish id done things differently.
I've had to learn to do things differently either my youngest due to being ND.
The when and then is a good one
When you have.... then you/we can.... it gives a "reward" to the task for example when you have put your shoes on then we can.....

I’m not a shouter as it doesn’t come naturally to me. I hate hearing prolonged shouting when telling off a child, but I think a quick shout of an urgent command (eg “stop that now”) is absolutely fine.

I saw a PP saying the only social cue their autistic child seems to respond to is shouting - YES. I have recently discovered this with my SEN child. A quick sharp shout is the only thing that really works with him - I reserve it only for very bad/dangerous behaviour. It comes very unnaturally to me, but ultimately my natural style of being calm and explaining consequences just simply didn’t work for him as he doesn’t have the ability to think that far ahead. But if I can get him to stop endangering himself with a firm, raised voice then of course I will do that. The alternative is what, to let him carry on being in danger because I’m afraid others overhearing might think I’m a bad parent? THAT would be bad parenting in my view.

I also saw another PP (sorry I really cba to scroll back up to find who said what) who commented about a mother threatening to go home and leave the zoo after paying £100 to get in, and that they obviously wouldn’t follow through. This made me laugh because I can think of several times when my mum very much did make us go home from zoos, theme parks, and other big days out! She never, ever said a thing she didn’t mean. And if only one of us was being naughty then that child would go back home with a parent and come back to pick the rest of us up later. We knew she meant business!

I am the same with my children, though it’s never happened for us at places like the zoo yet. But my children absolutely know that if I tell them “x will happen if you do y” then I am being deadly serious.

I think the saying they don’t care is bravado.
Watching your sibling eat an ice cream or play in park while you have to sit on bench is pretty sobering. All missing treats because one has played up isn’t fair.

I used reins on mine when they were toddlers. The slippery little fuckers couldnt get out of those. They were invaluable.

I don’t think you doing much wrong. Children can be frustrating. As long as the shouting is used sparingly and you’re not shouting at everything your children aren’t being harmed. I would shout at my kids from time to time. It made them listen, they knew I was getting cross and they would then do what they were being told to do. No body is perfect but if your children are happy, healthy and safe you’re doing fine

I had one didn't care if thing were lost - charts made everything worse. ADHD and other things in end. Very hard to tell off.

Firm voice - full three names - very firm - once have attention - which loud noise like a clap - I.SAID. COME. NOW. if not .... NOW. - which may have been shouted and start walking- worked for him. Other option is to offer a job to get moving - worked best with eldest.

I can't work out if the shouting needed to get attention - or to actually get child to comply.

There are some techniques but will depend on the child and the situation and most parents are winging it and as PP says what works for one child can change with age as well.