Jewish people have to take security very seriously in schools here.

[WhereAreTheTrueGreens]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c623d7z1rxg5o

Antisemitism here in the UK is appalling.

I was once a 'Grren' no more due to the hatred Antisemitism in the party.

What placates me is that the pattern is well known throughout history and always ends up the same. I know that the truth will come out eventually and people have left behind a digital footprint of hatred and racism that can’t be undone. I saw an interview with that actress from Harry Potter recently where she was desperately trying to backpedal on her previous comments of JKR and the whole trans thing. She realised that she had to be accountable for what she’d said before critical thinking and consequences kicked in.
Many many people on the anti Israel side (not calling it pro Pally because I’m pro pally too, very much, but I’m also pro Israel), have been horrific in their unleashing of antisemitic rhetoric that they intellectualise with words like Zionism, occupation, land-grab etc thinking that they’re justifying everything this way.
But facts, history and truth remain and will come out eventually. I’ve a lot more to say on this but it’s for another topic. I’ll just add that whether these people like it or not, they are blatantly antisemitic. And you see it everywhere now. Racism is vilifying an entire people because of the actions of a few. And this is exactly what’s happening.

Yes, good points, @Teenawilko. Some of the things posted by Green candidates on sm at the last election, for example.

Yes, the pattern is well known throughout history and always ends up the same: Jews get vilified and attacked, and then the world says either “Well, they’re Jews” and shrugs, or “Oh dear, we mustn’t let that happen again.” And fucking shrugs for all the damn good it does!

Only this time, we will not allow ourselves to be herded into the gas chambers.

Well said.

I’m not attacking you, @Teenawilko, nor any of the compassionate and engaged posters on this thread. I’m just fed up of being the world’s whipping boy.

I am the daughter and grand daughter of Holocaust Survivors. My parent and grandparent worked to build a better world out of the cesspit they had escaped. Yet, while it is a better world, we still have to fight the same fights over and over again, every day. Just to be people. Ordinary people.

I'm so sorry that Jewish people have to continuously suffer ignorance and antisemitism.

On the marches on social media including MN and in real life.

I'm sorry some people shout FP in faces of Jewish people and on the streets in the UK rather than fuck hamas.

My family went to Munich two years ago. Stickers saying 'FuckHamas' were very prevalent. The city hall was flying both the Ukrainian flag and the Israeli flags.
I' off to find a photo I took.

It - clearly- did not escape me the significance.

Here. It was April 2024.

Excellent.
My town hall had the Palestinian flag flying.

A lot of things are illegal in Germany today thankfully. Any swastikas or Holocaust analogy etc.
I’m not any religion but my best friend for many years is a black Jew and I can’t even begin to tell you the kind of things she and her family have experienced in the UK and more recently in Spain as a result. She’s the kindness most lovely person I know. Yet she’s been at the receiving end of some of the most antisemitic and racist things that I’ve heard of.
What I’m most perturbed about is that her wider community are left wing activities who she has stood alongside for decades. BLM, Ukraine, green issues etc. She has stood in solidarity with these people who claim to be humanitarian and on the “right side”. Yet these are the very people who today, express vile antisemitic vitriol in her face.. people who vehemently believe themselves to be anti racist! Yet they vilify the land of her ancestors, allow themselves to spew trendy rhetoric about her lived experience and she’s lost so many friends over it. I mean, how difficult is it to say to your Jewish friend: I have my own feelings about the conflict, however you’re my friend and I’ve got your back and I love you?
How can people who go on pro Palestine marches not see how intimating and frightening they seem to Jewish and Israeli people? How can they not understand how weighted and traumatic the word “genocide” is to Jews? I don’t get it and I never will. You can have strong views without cancelling or hurting those who disagree!

100% agree @Teenawilko

How truly upsetting and horrible for your lovely friend.

Many holocaust scholars have said Gaza meets the definition of a genocide. To your prior point about “hurty feelings” over words, I would imagine those who believe and use this phrase in connection with Gaza feel the plight of Palestinians is the more critical matter, versus the feelings of others. It surprises me you can’t see that, even if you disagree with them.

So the feelings of British citizens living here in the UK and being harassed and attacked are unimportant because somehow attacking and harassing them will stop Hamas from torturing Palestinians? I genuinely don’t understand.

That is not at all what I said. I was responding to the implication above that people should not use the word ‘genocide’ to describe the situation in Gaza because it is weighted and traumatic for the Jewish community. I was making the point that for those who believe they are witnessing a genocide in real time, that is a powerful reason to describe it as such. I have said nothing at all about the harassment of British citizens.

for those who believe they are witnessing a genocide in real time
As I said upthread, if we use 'genocide' for deaths during urban warfare, what words do we have left for what happened to the Tutsis, the Armenians and European Jewry?

As I also said upthread, somewhere over 100,000 people died during the battle for Berlin during WWII. It lasted less than three weeks. That wasn't a genocide, either. It was urban warfare, against an enemy, like Hamas, fighting amongst its civilians.

Think probably not the best thread considering the topic title to be debating Genocide or not Genocide. Think the main point people are making is that for most those attacking Jewish people verbally or physically what is happening in Gaza is simply the excuse rather than the cause. Anyway whatever the reason school's in the UK should be a safe place for children. However currently some are only safe space if you are not Jewish (There are other people with other issues of course but you get what I mean).

Absolutely this. Unfortunately, the term has been used for certain purposes.

Sorry to sound like policing but maybe leave this particular debate to a suitable thread

You are welcome to ignore my suggest of course

Yes, excellent points

I get what you're saying, but somebody had hopped onto the thread to talk about it.

But the only reason they think they're witnessing a 'genocide" is because of the Hamas propaganda and the multiple social media post by bots that are re-posted again and again. It's not a genocide and posting that it is over and over again still won't make it one. And to accuse the Jewish people who did suffer the largest genocide in history of doing that to another is pretty low. You don't vaccinate and provide aid to people if you want to kill them. Or warn them to move from places that will be attacked. The only people who want to commit genocide are Hamas....and I think at this point although Jews are their main target, they seem to be doing a good job of killing any Palestinians who don't agree with them too. Jewish people want peace and to live peacefully....when the majority of Palestinians want that too, it will happen. You can't make peace with people who don't want it.

Someone feels the need to hop onto every thread about antisemitism to talk about something else.

Re the genocide claim, they could of course wait for the international court to reach a verdict before bandying that extremely controversial word around.

Again, let’s try to return to discussing antisemitism in schools and the sad fact of Jewish children needing extra security measures just to be safe at school in the UK.

How can spewing hatred at British Jews help Gaza. Seriously give your head a wobble.

There are some extremely vocal ‘FP’ voices in our town. There was outrage at an Israeli flag being flown on the anniversary of 7th October. They were apparently oblivious to the date and demanded to know why Jewish people in our town should need to mark the date or feel afraid. They are very much of the “I’m not antisemitic but….” camp. It’s horrible and I feel deeply for every Jewish person.

I was talking with a 14 year old earlier and he said he had to sometimes justify being alive to other kids

Now that hits home hard doesn't it

The likes of Owen Jones, NEU leader and various other cretins can pick apart the latest findings but what the fail to understand is there narrative on this doesn't matter. The lived experiences of Jewish children in tbe UK is more important than their argument points or people in the UK debating a conflict in another country.