To be appalled that parents need to be supported by government to potty train their child

[Wisefishswimpast]

That^^

Why are these parenting fails happening? - not potty trained for starting school, tooth extractions in young children, rising obesity rates….

Is there no accountability?
Why is this happening?

YANBU - parenting standards have declined which is terrible

YABU - this is how things are because….<explanation>

I know there will be exceptions to the above, for example certain health conditions, late maturation of signals between brain and bladder. I am referring to the more widespread rise in these instances.

Many parents in the nineties when my children were young both worked. I took a week off work to toilet train. An issue with some parents now is letting the child choose when they are ready rather then the parent working out they are ready.

It’s odd, isn’t it. I don’t know how I knew when to potty train, it may have been from the NHS book you used to get in hospital when you gave birth. I used the Gina Ford guide to potty training which worked.

Not just parents that needed parenting education/knowledge either.

I met most of my "mum friends" at sure start playgroups. Having a network of friends with similar age babies helps keep you on track of milestones and stops the isolation of new parenthood. Surestart playgroups were much more welcoming than church groups. The facilitators knew what they were doing and who to nudge together to create friendships.

Whilst I fully agree this is crazy, I do think life now is just very hard for many, many people. Both parents working all hours to make ends meet. Many just don't have the physical time or mental strength to raise children properly. Gone are the days where 1 parent could be home with the children and the family still have a comfortable life. It needs to be addressed, urgently, but I dont think it's a case of pure laziness in every case.

Come and work in a school and you will believe it ! Open your eyes. It’s not them and us . But seeing a two year old in a pram drinking cola from a bottle and watching a phone whilst the parent smokes in - this is the school gate . We see children swiping book . If you believe this is some classist thing and it’s not true then come and spend a day changing 5 year olds babies with us.

To potty train, you really need to clear your diary and be under house arrest for a fortnight ( my experience). I don't think many people are willing to do this or able to take enough time off work.

Because that was the official advice given by the NHS! You’ll find threads on here from two years ago, or even sooner with a poster worried about their child potty training with hundreds of posters telling them not to worry, they’ll do it when they’re ready. It’s a very pervasive myth that has been peddled for years and years. It stuck. It’s only recently shifted, so it will be a while to see the effects.

YABU because people want to be nannied by the state and the state want to nanny people - this is the result. Instead of people thinking for themselves

Absolutely this!

Yes I agree. Also the mothers you see pushing prams around town, one hand on the pram handle while scrolling on their phone. I witnessed one child in a pram nearly get flattened because the mother pushed the pram into the road, too busy on the phone to watch where she was going.

That's just an excuse. You shouldn't need a Sure start centre to help you toilet train your child or get your child to brush their teeth. We had no money when my DDs were young and they were both toilet trained by 2 and a 1/2. They also went to the dentist regularly.
I admit DS is 6 and still in nappies but he's severely autistic so I am not embarrassed by that I would have been mortified if my DDs had started school in nappies.

If they are not willing - they shouldn't be parents.

If potty training age and working full time you are either a) not restricted by school holidays and using year-round childcare so book a week off to potty train instead of holiday. Or b) have older children and have presumably booked at least 1 week off during a school holiday. Which will have to be used to potty train.

A good nursery will support with potty training and using cutlery. My son learnt how to wee standing up at nursery. It was Montessori in all but name though.

The vast majority of children attend nursery or some form of official childcare , so where do all these vast amounts of untrained children come from?

Yes agreed. My SIL is a reception teacher and some parents actually say to her face that potty training, or other basic tasks like eating with cutlery are her job and that’s why they send them to school!

Agree with a PP that we should bring back shame. There will always be ‘that family’ but the culture of excusing everything means you end up with the majority of a class needing to be taught basics before they even start learning stuff!

Parents also need to put some effort in. Nurseries can't do everything.

I completely agree OP. It’s really pathetic, shit parenting - I wonder why some people bother having kids at all.

I see a lot of the usual excuses trotted out, but there is no excuse. My parents were “busy” in the late 70s, they both worked full time, had very little spare income, yet I started school potty trained.

I see it too where I volunteer - child in a pushchair with a screen and no interaction with the parent. But as so many adults walk around staring at a phone it’s hardly surprising they give the child a screen too.

I’ve been an early years teacher for 27 years and when I first started children had to be toilet trained in order to start preschool at 2.5yrs (SEN exempted of course)
Funnily enough all the children were dry by 2.5yrs.
Then the government decided that was not inclusive & Early years settings were no longer allowed to insist children were toilet trained.
I think that decision has contributed to the problems there are today
It made it seem normal for children to be in nappies at 3 & 4.
The nappy manufacturers rubbed their hands in glee & promoted nappies for older children.
It all became the norm, no ‘shame’ was felt by parents if their older child was still in nappies as they would have felt previously.

I have to say I have never sent a pupil off to school still in nappies, but we work hard with parents to make sure that doesn’t happen.
All our children sit down together at a table to eat & are taught good table manners, we resisted the Ofsted fad of ‘rolling snack’ where children don’t all sit down together.
They all know how to dress themselves, personal hygiene etc
I know these skills should be taught by parents but I can’t help but wonder about the quality of the early years experience that these children in nappies, with no hygiene, unable to dress themselves etc have had

I think part of the problem is the real-life disconnect and loss of community. Social media has connected people in such shallow ways, and replaced so much of the real connection we need as humans. I honestly don't think many people are aware of how much effort parenting is, because they don't see others putting in the v effort around them. When parenting and childhood are "Instagramised" it is expected that it's all about "making memories," expensive days out, and buying more stuff - whereas the reality is lots of parenting is boring, hardwork, consistency, and routine. There's no insta-moment in that.
I won't just blame social media though, I also think society had already changed long before that. Practical parenting skills don't seem to be passed on through generations so much any more, unless you live in a more traditional-oriented culture, such as Traveller families.

Parents managed for generations to potty train their children without Surestart! My parents and grandparents certainly did

There wasn't a scheme like that when I was a child, and my parents managed to potty train me and brushed my teeth (and taught me) and to use cutlery before I started primary school.

We have the internet now where you can literally type in a few words and get all the information available on how to do something or how to learn a skill if you're not sure.

There are even books on the subject (available in libraries)

There's always someone like you to blame some political party for something or other.

Maybe try blaming the parents for their sheer lack of effort.

There is NO excuse for this level of shitty parenting.

I used that too! I know a lot of people on hete hate her but i found all her books really useful.

And every time they typed in, they were told to wait until their child is ready, including from the NHS. So they waited, and waited , and waited.

I can remember a few years ago walking around Tesco, during August, and hearing a mum saying to her little lad, “better get you a toothbrush, cos you’ll need to start brushing your teeth again soon, before you go back to school.” And when I did my teacher training at an infant’s school, the reception staff, saying that so many of the little ones wet themselves. Others were picking up food at lunch with their fingers, no idea how to hold a knife and fork. My kids were dry, clean, eating properly by the time they were at preschool, around three years old. Preschool wouldn’t have taken them otherwise.