To be appalled that parents need to be supported by government to potty train their child

[Wisefishswimpast]

That^^

Why are these parenting fails happening? - not potty trained for starting school, tooth extractions in young children, rising obesity rates….

Is there no accountability?
Why is this happening?

YANBU - parenting standards have declined which is terrible

YABU - this is how things are because….<explanation>

I know there will be exceptions to the above, for example certain health conditions, late maturation of signals between brain and bladder. I am referring to the more widespread rise in these instances.

It would also make things much more expensive for families of children with SEND.

No it wouldn't. Families with SEND (and I know because kiddo who's now 33 had significant SEND) always did receive supplies based on need free of charge. What it would do is unpick whether SEND is the primary cause of incontinence and determine whether it's a medical or social issue. As per the TV the other day, mothers were saying they kept their infant in nappies because, for example, they didn't want them to have an accident in their car seat as that was difficult to clean (social issue).

What about children with moderate to severe diagnosed disabilities? Is that lazy parenting?

This has been covered at length in the thread

Not in my experience. In my experience, families receive some supplies but nowhere near enough and you are then left to cover the rest.

As I've said above, diagnosed disability is always on the medical files. But disability doesn't automatically mean can't be potty trained. My own son has severe neurological / physical disabilities. His progress with potty training was monitored by a health visitor because it was important that any further issues would be picked up. I mean what if a kid has got celiacs and this never gets investigated because they're already in the bucket of 'disabled explains problems with potty training'.

And you don't receive DLA for this additional expense?

I do. But it is far from the only additional expense as I'm sure you know with your own son.

It's laziness. My daughter is 18 and an apprentice at a nursery. She sees lazy parents every day. On one memorable occasion she handed a clean and dry toddler off to her Father at pick up time; Dad takes the child out to the car; child unluckily does a poo while being strapped into the car. Dad brings her back into the nursery, which is reasonable you would think as there would obviously be a space for him to quickly change her before heading home. Yeah, no. The Dad physically hands his child back to my daughter who is still helping with pick ups, and asks her to change the nappy! My daughter was so shocked she just did it rather than argue with this lazy, useless excuse for a father.
When she told me later I could not believe that an adult would do this and apparently think it was normal and feel no shame. This nursery is in an expensive area with very high house prices and excellent schools and the parents are almost all well off. It's just shocking imo.

I had to get my son trained to get him in to half day nursery at 2.5. At that point he had no diagnosis but I just knew I needed a break so I got on with it and did it in two weeks. Nothing like the determination of desperation!
He ended up relapsing after six months but we muddled through with trainer pants until reception when it became clear he was behind his peers generally and needed specialist provision (school suggestion, to be fair they’d tried lots of things).
at 4 he qualified for free nappies so we had those till 7 for nights which helped and this is the key thing - you couldn’t buy nappies to fit a 3-4 year old in the UK then, but you could in most of Europe.

Yes, there are quite a few additional expenses, but personal care items really are top of the list. We can't keep ignoring the social and environmental cost of disposable nappies.

Asda are currently knocking out Ninjamas (4-7 years) at £3.50 for 10. 35 pence per day for convenience is probably a cost most people would absorb. Make that £1.40 a day and they'll probably stop and think. £1.40 x 28 = £39.20 out of the 4 weekly DLA, leaving plenty for other essentials.

Didn't you say that your sons personal care supplies were free?

I don't think parents of disabled children should be financially penalised because some parents don't potty train their children.

It doesn’t , however the advice and support did. How many times does it need to be repeated. For years, any parent that was worried potty training wasn’t going well was told to wait until they’re ready. A poster was being told that just yesterday!

I personally experienced that when I asked my HV for advice and she said it would be pointless to keep trying because her speech was so delayed. They also equated ability to speak with understanding. Good thing I didn’t follow the advice of the professionals then , eh? Otherwise I would’ve been the shitty, lazy parent with a 4 yo in nappies.

I don't know why you're directing that last bit at me.

We're back into 'yes but' territory again.
So you are saying that interventions to get parentsto potty train their children should not be considered because it might affect a small % of children who can't be potty trained?

The overwhelming philosophy seems to be to use a nappy until it is “full”. Children are being taught that sitting in waste is normal. It is hardly surprising that potty training is difficult.

People need to go back to changing when a child pees.

The majority of children are still starting school potty trained.

No, of course interventions which also punish families of disabled children shouldn't be considered.

I think so many things can be true at the same time. Waiting until a child is ‘ready’ CAN be good. My daughter was 3 when she was ready and never had an accident from the moment she decided to use the toilet (apart from one memorable bout of noro!) my son just would not, could not get it. We tried so many times, over and over. Stopping and starting. I am a sahm so was there doing everything I could but nothing clicked for him. One day at 3.5 he just got it. Both were late by many standards but I had a more positive experience overall as neither wet themselves or had accidents at pre school. I wasn’t lazy, I tried earlier with both but neither managed despite my efforts. Some children are ready much earlier and can do it! It’s a skill but also your body has to tell you when you need to go and if that message isn’t there, it’s less potty training and more just luck that your child manages to be on the toilet when they need to pee!
I don’t think teachers and TAs should be changing nappies. At all. I say that as a mother of a disabled child with autism and as an ex teacher. It is not their job and it is not their responsibility. The gov telling us to be inclusive doesn’t stop that being a ridiculous situation for teaching staff to be in. The problem is that there is no solution. Care assistants should be doing those intimate jobs but the gov won’t fund them. The children need an education and teaching staff need a job where they aren’t dealing with nappies but how to reconcile the two, I have no idea.

I know my dgs is potty trained, he is not even 2 and my dd works, he has always been sat on a potty since he was a baby and she tended to use washables

We certainly have knowledge now that some kids need a bit or lot more time. So yeah, unless you are stuck in Victorian era, it does change.

Ah yes ... the much-loved by MNetters 'research' and 'we know better now'.
The thing is, research changes. As we 'older mothers' know.

Yes 👏🏼 no idea if what I'm doing is right but started my 19mo on potty part time at 12mo and have been doing chunks of nappy free time at home over the last month or so. Actually feels uncomfortable discussing it with most other parents, especially if they had kids around 4/5+ years ago, as so many of these waited until 3 at least and until they showed "signs of readiness". So it feels like I'm either doing something wrong or implicitly criticising just by doing something different.

We asked our HV at the one year check and she said they expect potty training at 2 now.

The vast majority of parents are likely doing their best and following the most up to date guidance available. I'm not sure why that offends you so much. You're right that research is ongoing and guidance will no doubt be updated - I hope when I'm an "older mother" that I will be kind to the next generation of new parents and will accept that they probably don't want to hear advice from decades earlier.

For what it's worth, I potty trained at around 2.5 years old. I looked for signs of "readiness" including staying dry for periods of time and the ability to communicate well enough. My children potty trained within a few days so I considered it very successful.

I can hand on heart say that I took what I believed was the best approach, although I can't say I particularly followed any books or websites. Could I have started earlier? Probably. Did that feel like the right thing to do at the time? No.

I also work full time, as does my husband, for those who choose to make things like this the fault of working parents.

They "expected" potty training at 2 four years ago too. You will be hearing the same guidance as the parents you feel uncomfortable speaking to.

Let's see if your child actually potty trains by 2 before you start sneering too heavily.

Sounds perfectly fine