To be appalled that parents need to be supported by government to potty train their child

[Wisefishswimpast]

That^^

Why are these parenting fails happening? - not potty trained for starting school, tooth extractions in young children, rising obesity rates….

Is there no accountability?
Why is this happening?

YANBU - parenting standards have declined which is terrible

YABU - this is how things are because….<explanation>

I know there will be exceptions to the above, for example certain health conditions, late maturation of signals between brain and bladder. I am referring to the more widespread rise in these instances.

Yes. I think sometimes ‘ being ready’ is interpreted by the parent as the child saying they want to use the toilet rather than the parents working out the child is ready to learn so let’s get on with teaching them.

The nappy manufacturers rubbed their hands in glee & promoted nappies for older children

indeed

back in the 1960s the average age for potty training was 18-20 months and 1950s was 12-18 months. Mothers had an incentive to get a child trained and out of nappies, as the next child was on its way

I do agree with this too. It's just financially harder now to have one parent at home during the early years, which used to be very much the norm. I'm not talking about the 1930s either, I mean in the 80s.

DH and I were both quite shocked by this report today and reminisced that when our twenty-something DCs were small, they were expected to be out of nappies (at least in the daytime) by nursery school! That had always been the case, as far as we knew. Not sure what on earth has happened in the intervening two decades to change it!

Some examples of “readiness” advice from the NHS. It’s tricky to find now because it’s all been replaced.

• Parents were advised to wait for distinct behavioral or physical signs that a toddler was ready (such as telling you when they needed a wee, staying dry for hours, or showing dislike for a wet nappy) before introducing the potty.

-

I can believe the swiping a book very easily.

'But seeing a two year old in a pram drinking cola from a bottle and watching a phone whilst the parent smokes in - this is the school gate . . ' - Is this true or an exaggeration? Is it common?

Agree - a lot of parenting is about consistency, routine and hard work. It used to frustrate me no end when someone would say - you are so lucky that your children are well mannered- luck had nothing to do with it! It’s about having standards and expectations and modelling the behaviour we expect and that is not always easy.

Crikey I never asked my parents for help, they weren't all that great- I envy those with good parents but that's the hand I was dealt- I certainly didn't expect the state to help with my children.

Having kids is a responsibility, not a right. As an adult you figure out whether you have the means and will to do it- it's not on anyone else.

Just not true. People can't be arsed to do anything for themselves any more.

If you really think this is them following google advice and not actually giving a shit about bringing up their kids you're deluded.

Some people shouldn't be parents.

Cloth nappies were uncomfortable when wet/soiled. The used nappy formed a lump/ball between the child's legs. Toilet training was relatively easy. The only thing was you had to be very careful when flushing down the toilet as a good many children liked to watch stuff disappear (watches, dollies, lego, money etc).

Disposable ones are comfortable as the wet/bulky feeling is wicked away from the skin.

Yes this is definitely true to some extent! Take away the discomfort and remove the incentive. The Oh Crap potty training book also blames the whole gentle parenting and waiting till a child is older/ready as a major shift in toilet training capability. Potty training is learning a skill and requires patience and teaching. Not waiting for a magic moment when a child can suddenly sort themselves out.

Same here. By approx age 2.5. Done. That was the norm.

This would be so good for sustainability too

My instinct is that these are children who haven’t been to nursery.

My children’s nursery were very proactive with toilet training, had approached me before I started toilet training my children about when I thought I would like to start and made sure they were taken to the toilet in nursery etc.

All the children also sat down to eat together (with cutlery), the nursery always tried new foods with the children (lots of fruit and veggies), read to them, brushed their teeth with them etc.

These days you just know many kids would be left in their own shit all day.

I think it's all related to the growing belief that we shouldn't have expectations of children. That training and asking children to do things will somehow damage them mentally. People seem to think that children will do things when they are ready at their own pace. No they won't.

My own HV told me to wait when I asked for advice with potty training. She was 2 and 3 months and had a speech delay. Apparently no point trying until she could tell me she needed to go. I ignored that advice and DD was potty trained for preschool. I’ve seen it happen hundreds of times, in real life and on here , mum groups etc. Because the bloody professionals kept telling us to. It was literally official NHS advice.
Parents were advised to wait for distinct behavioral or physical signs that a toddler was ready (such as telling you when they needed a wee, staying dry for hours, or showing dislike for a wet nappy) before introducing the potty.

How about putting useless parents in the stocks outside Tesco’s/Aldi/Lidl, and having them pelted with ordure.

I’d like the same to apply to anyone going to the shops/on the school run/to a hotel breakfast, in their pyjamas.

😈

Breakdown of the extended family meaning no older generation to advise new parents.
Devaluing of the advice of the older generation even when it is available.
Less oversight from health visitors who would have prompted and advised.
Too much advice to let children develop at their own pace.
Fear of forcing things like tooth brushing on children in case it's 'abusive'.
More time spent outside the home so potty training is inconvenient.

Tbh we seem to be moving to a situation where we don’t have any expectations of adults. There’s always an excuse as to why x and y are impossible and that 21st century life is so overwhelming.

This is nothing new. There were kids in my DC's class who were still in pull-ups at six and that was a decade ago. I think a LOT of support had been cut at the time that made it worse but now it's on the slow train to correction.

Mine are long grown up now, but I read at the time that children were not usually physiologically ready - meaning that they’d have sufficient bladder/bowel control to wait even a very short time - until the age of 2.

So I waited until they were both just past 2, and both times it took a week - at least for daytime.

I certainly didn’t wait until they showed any particular signs of readiness.

A friend of a dd used to say her son (no SN) still ‘wasn’t ready’ at three and a half.

I do think the "how do you find the time?" issue needs to be addressed by pointing out to parents that they should be saving some annual leave to take kids out of nursery if needed, to focus on potty training. I am allocating a week of my leave next year for this purpose.

I don't disagree with the general argument that its very hard to raise children well when you're both working all week, but equally parents can't just shrug and do nothing helpful to try and minimise the harm.

Quite.

Me too!