To be appalled that parents need to be supported by government to potty train their child

[Wisefishswimpast]

That^^

Why are these parenting fails happening? - not potty trained for starting school, tooth extractions in young children, rising obesity rates….

Is there no accountability?
Why is this happening?

YANBU - parenting standards have declined which is terrible

YABU - this is how things are because….<explanation>

I know there will be exceptions to the above, for example certain health conditions, late maturation of signals between brain and bladder. I am referring to the more widespread rise in these instances.

Sorry? Where did you hear sneering?

I say that to people all the time, this is where he's at right now but we are still using nappies and we'll see. And I know at least one friend and my grandma who think kids should be potty trained and done by 19mo so have worried the gentle easing in isn't the right thing either.

Really, wow I didn't realise this.
I used cloth nappies (DD now 8, so not long ago) but had no idea that this is what people did. Even on the occasions that I put her in disposables (holidays) I still changed her as soon as I realised she'd had a wee. Surely leaving them in wet nappies increases the chances of UTIs.

About the readiness thing. Parents have always looked for readiness - age, between 1.5 and 2.5, average development - able to understand simple instructions, some developing speech, having some dry spells between nappies

Somehow, advice turned this around and I think people think ‘readiness’ means a child will suddenly know how and when to go to the loo. The message that we as parents actually have to teach the child this and yes, it can be frustrating but we need to train them has been lost

i find the added disability discussion insulting - a child going to school with SEND will have been flagged - drs, nursery, playgroup, hv. I don’t know a single parent with a child who isnt hitting milestones that just sits back and ignore it. The majority of parents will have looked for help and advice. The children arriving at school still using nappies and no history of any send, diagnosed or undiagnosed - I’m sorry, but these children have been failed. Children with additional needs have always existed in mainstream and those children have always been accepted and catered for. The amount of 4-5 year old in nappies is new. Children haven’t changed - shite parenting has

But they probably didn’t have both parents commuting and working full time hours wit toddlers in nursery until 6pm

Is there any suggestion that it’s the children of working parents who are starting school in nappies? Most of those children would be in nursery, as my DGC were, and the nurseries supported the parents when they began toilet training.

I really think it depends on the nursery though. Friend of mine potty trained her 18mo and her nursery wouldn't take him to the toilet while he was still in the baby room, so he had to wear pull ups to nursery until he moved rooms.

Mine have said they'll be supportive but it's actually my main worry with potty training, I feel like I need some solid evidence/success that DS is fully asking for and using the potty in nappy free time at home before even asking nursery to do the same with him. And he's only there 2 days pw. Really feel for full time working parents, there's the pressure of needing to take annual leave to get it done in that time (I also can't choose when I take mine), you could ask nursery/childminder to support but child will surely not get the same 1-1 attention with multiple clients to watch. Anecdotally, I've had multiple friends have nurseries tell them to wait to potty train, after the age they actually wanted to start it.

The faux "I feel so uncomfortable speaking to other parents about potty training...". Sure you do.

Why don't you do what you think is best and allow other mothers to do the same? We don't all want to spend the best part of a year "potty training" when it can take a matter of days if you just take the pressure of everyone in the household for a few extra months. You may well find you're still right here when your child is 3 and then other mummies who got there sooner (like me) might feel ever so uncomfortable talking to you.

No I also had the raised eyebrows about not being child-led when I chose to train at 2 because I'd had enough of nappy changing. This does happen, especially now that mums often get into tribal like groups with similar views it can feel awkward to go against a norm.

Why worry about what others think. Yes, I understand being part of a supportive group but if they don’t support your choices on how you raise your child, then just don’t discuss things they’d likely disagree with.
Be strong in decisions in your life, bugger others.

Surely child-led just means you make sure your child is ready - which could be 2, 2.5, 18 months, whatever it is. How could that lead to raised eyebrows?

I tend to avoid "mum tribes" or "mum cliques" or "mummy friend" type situations, so perhaps that has saved me from these eyebrows. I don't have time to worry about what "the other mums" are doing.

I think it was because I was honest that I wasn't 100% sure about readiness but I was really starting to hate the nappies. My friends weren't too bad, just raised eyebrows but I know that some mum cliques are a lot more judgy.

Okay.... Don't know why this has made you so snippy. Maybe an example of what I was talking about actually, look how even discussing it rubs people the wrong way. It's genuinely how I feel, like I'm doing the wrong thing or it almost feels like a loaded topic and I have to add loads of caveats that feel defensive rather than I'm so superior. Basically wish there was more support for what I've started, but I only really know one parent who's done similar so I still feel quite lost with it and like I won't have support from nursery yet.

Wish there was more of a roadmap but there's so many different methods and different bits of advice re potty training, I asked lots of different parents I knew what they did, researched things myself and went with my gut when I started. Don't have my mum around to ask what she did or that would be a big help. I heard everything from "wait until they're 3" to "you should have started as soon as he could sit up".

And I absolutely know kids will take different amounts of time to do it. My friend started both her DC similarly with a potty from 12 months, one got it at 2.5 and one at 18 months. If you look at my previous posts, I've also mentioned the constraints working parents have and sure, not everyone wants to spend ages on it. I was fine with the slow gradual process and was less comfortable with not starting until later. Also saw my nephew not start until 3+ and then be very stubborn/nervous around the potty so thought at least if I start early, mine doesn't have the fear, however long it takes him to eventually get it.

I also think you misunderstood what I said about the HV expecting it at 2. I was quoting her, but I didn't think then or now that she meant "by 2", I understood her as start when they're 2. There does seem to be or have been pressure from other parents/nursery not to start until 3, which I don't think is the same as try it before then and see how they go.

Yeah I haven't had any weird or judgemental comments, but just people reacting like oh okay... Well I guess if he's not upset by it...

Then my best friend and grandma going oh don't you just get it done at 19 months and that's it?

Still feel like I'm making it up as I go along, it's why I've been asking for advice in the potty training thread on here as well.

Everyone is making it up as they go along. That's why it grates on me when parents come across so sanctimonious. Sometimes you strike lucky and something works first time - be it potty training, nap schedules, weaning - but that doesn't make you a superior parent.

Honestly based on the threads on here, I don't know why anyone would want "mum friends", it sounds torturous.

Yeah I don't think I'm a superior parent or sanctimonious, that felt like some mental gymnastics to read it into what I said, but I appreciate you may not have seen all my comments on this thread and tone, context is all lacking online.

I also get it's a topic that makes everyone feel pretty shit about themselves, had a colleague say the other day that potty training wasn't her finest hour and I said I don't think it's anyone's.

Like I said, I'd go to a drop in session on potty training in a heartbeat, I feel pretty isolated because it's a touchy subject to talk about and there's so much conflicting info on all sides. So why I find it uncomfortable talking to other parents about it, you don't want to say the wrong thing but also how else do you get answers on how to do it? And everyone's kid is different anyway.

I do think one of the original ideas I replied to, the "wait until 3 brigade" is different and there's some pushback from some peers, childcare if you think it's right to try it earlier. I did see my niece get it in a weekend but nephew take a lot longer and both started at 3, so I don't think this idea of waiting until 3 unless you're a martyr/idiot (not saying that's your point but it's the vibe on some potty training threads for sure) is a magic bullet. I think it's at least worth trying it before 3, going with your kid, in case they are one who'll take longer to get it so you've at least got more time before preschool etc starts, and I think people should be more supportive of that.

Also I do just find it can get awkward with some not all parents/mum friends. I've got lovely mum friends who have made different choices than I have (goes both ways, I've done some ridiculous things they wouldn't do and we laugh about) but I can absolutely joke or talk through how they're finding something that I've not chosen or started yet without it getting awkward for some reason. Potty training seems to be the one that makes everyone uncomfortable, apart from how we can all agree how annoying it is.

Here’s my experience with my oldest. He would go behind the couch to do a poo. In his nappy. So he knew it was different from doing a wee. I thought he was ready and introduced a potty. He wasn’t for having it. Hated the potty. Would not sit on it.

One day he was getting his nappy changed before we were going out shopping and he asked if he could get a gladiator figure. And I said no, because they asked at the till where you were buying one if the boy you were buying it for had a nappy on and if I said yes, no gladiator figure. They were only for boys with pants.

Well, he was hysterical, saying he wanted the gladiator figure AND his nappy. So I ended up saying I would lie to the till person and pretend he didn’t have a nappy on (still ashamed).

Then when I went to work on the Monday, my Dad took him out “potty shopping” and I came into this massive big potty in the shape of a chair, moulded to look like a teddy, bit like a commode, in front of my telly, that he was happily sitting in doing a poo. 🤣

That was it.

Put pull ups on him for bed and for three nights running, he was dry in the morning.

So he was completely toilet trained due to that massive potty which was really like a toilet pan.

He was two. 19 months is young. Don’t stress.

Next one just got the teddy toilet chair and he took to it like a duck to water.

You can see when they’re ready, but some children can’t handle the traditional potty.

Its too low for them.

Thank you for sharing ❤️ sounds like he was really ready! Amazing he night trained so quickly too, I thought that could come much later but I guess you just watch how they're doing at night.

My main thing atm is am I giving enough nappy free time, I'm trying to do between breakfast and lunch, then between wake up from nap and dinner. He seems to have mostly cracked poos, just the odd occasion he's in the highchair and a bit has happened before I've got him out and upstairs. But it's the noticing what happens when he wees I'm trying to work on. I feel bad he's in some kind of childcare 3 days week so that's inconsistent already - at least at MIL's I've got him a potty now and she takes him when he asks but no nappy free time, and feels a bit much to ask of family. At least before I can say yes he's now able to notice he's wet/ask for the potty for a wee. I've been braving walks with no nappies but not going properly out in the car to the library group yet, for example. So that feels inconsistent as well.

Anyway - totally second guessing myself! I guess like you say it's not high pressure high stakes just yet.

I didn't call you sanctimonious. And no, I didn't read all of your posts.

I've never heard of the wait until 3 brigade either. I didn't wait until 3 with any of mine, I won't wait until 3 for the next one. I don't know anyone who specifically waited until 3. I'm not aware that was official advice.

I think you just need to do what works for you and stop making it into "us and them brigades". Two years from now, nobody will care how old your child was when you potty trained them, including you.

That is not what I'm doing so let's leave it there.

Don't do what works for you then. Continue to be uncomfortable totally unnecessarily. I really don't care.

You’re doing well. Don’t stress. You sound like a brilliant mum. They forget about it all. We don’t. I can’t remember being potty trained but my mum remembers! X

Absolutely this. Was listening to the radio the other day and they were talking about financial literacy and the amount of people saying that children should be taught about how to run a household like paying bills, washing clothes etc at school. A schools job is to give a formal education to give kids qualifications to get into higher education or work, it is not their job to teach basic life skills. And guess what it’s actually easier for parents to teach kids in their own home rather than the school having to create role play scenarios. If parents honestly have so little appetite for teaching their children such basic things then why are they even having them? Why not just hand them over to the state at birth if you care so little about how they are taught the most basic things.

I don’t think blaming mums for going back to work is the answer. My DC has been going to private nursery since she turned one. She potty trained before 2 and a half and pretty much all the kids at her nursery are potty trained before going into the preschool room at 3. In my bubble of parents I would say all kids are potty trained at or before 3, are read to, have reasonable diets, and watch some TV but their parents are conscious of screen time, and all of them are raised by both parents working. However I know from a parent in law who reports to children’s panels that unfortunately there are a lot of kids who are scrapping by only having their most basic needs met and when they go to nursery at 3 they are already so far behind and it is so difficult for them to catch up before school.

I don’t want to say it’s a class issue, it a lot more nuanced than that. I wouldn’t even say it’s poverty, giving these parents more money wouldn’t solve these issues and there are lots more families in poverty chugging along struggling but still doing a good job of bringing up their kids. Sure start etc is great and helps I’m sure, but judging by the amount of ‘my health visitor is judgey’ posts I see on mum groups on facebook I don’t think these parents are going engage with these services in the way they are intended. I think these parents really need to stay valuing their input into their child’s lives and start seeing how important it is.