To be appalled that parents need to be supported by government to potty train their child

[Wisefishswimpast]

That^^

Why are these parenting fails happening? - not potty trained for starting school, tooth extractions in young children, rising obesity rates….

Is there no accountability?
Why is this happening?

YANBU - parenting standards have declined which is terrible

YABU - this is how things are because….<explanation>

I know there will be exceptions to the above, for example certain health conditions, late maturation of signals between brain and bladder. I am referring to the more widespread rise in these instances.

It’s adults abdicating their authority and failing to set boundaries which is contributing to rising anxiety levels amongst children. Children crave boundaries, routine, structure, and yes, absolutely somebody saying ‘no’ and ‘yes, you do need to do this and are very capable’ (potty training).

No but we were in a situation where many children with additional needs and disabilities were denied pre-school education. Quite often they were the children who would benefit from it most. It was precisely because of this that the law was changed.

It should still stand for the vast majority of children. It should be done by age 2 for the vast majority. Utterly ridiculous!

I didn't say I wasn't without sympathy for the situation. Unfortunately I doubt he will get an specialist school so things like this will continue. Also it is mainly left to the TAs to deal with intimate care.

I wonder whether this situation would have been feasible if teachers weren’t female for the most part? I somehow doubt that if it were a primarily male work force this situation wouldn’t be happening - there would be specific staff to manage this differently.

Tbf most Teachers/TAs are OK with changing nappies for medical or SEN need (don't want to, but accept it's part and parcel). Been a while since I was in infants but we'd have 2 at the most around 2021 ish.

Its the children whose parents just haven't bothered to potty train that are the problem! And they are responsible for the situation becoming unmanageable numbers.

TA roles have been cut to the bone so many classes don’t have one or share with other classes. Even if the funding exists it’s very difficult to recruit as the role very challenging and underpaid - so teachers have to deal with it. It’s a shocking situation for everyone and something will have to change as this is untenable.

Most do not want to and they shouldn’t have to.

You do realise that an appropriate setting is still manned by teachers and TA’s right? A teacher in an SEN school is just as much a teacher as one in mainstream. The classes might be smaller and the ratios are higher, but they’re still teachers , teaching and sometimes dealing with toileting issues.

Don't want to, of course. But even when you weren't allowed in school or nursery until you were potty trained, staff of younger years would have to deal with accidents (and vomit. And shoes that had stepped in fox poo and walked on the carpet and a whole manner of gag-worthy occurrences).

That has always been a tiny part of the job. Its the scale of it that makes it ridiculous now.

I don’t think that teachers should ever be in a position where they regularly have to do intimate care, whatever setting. TAs may have contracts that state that they have a responsibility in the personal care plan and would recognise that but I don’t think any graduate entering teacher training considered that a regular part of their day would be changing nappies. Where is the line? Do secondary school teachers have to change 14 yr olds ?

Or residentials where half the class has a bug/food poisoning and it’s the middle of the night , all hands on deck.

What scale? What exact numbers are we talking about here?

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Sorry app lagged, will try and get it removed

• Lazy / selfish parenting
• busy parents both working
• no village to help so do things that are easy
• being mollly coddled themselves so do it to their kids
• spoilt brat syndrome
• keeping up with social media trends and spending time and money on that instead
• too much ‘self care’ and ‘me time’
• way too much screen time - kids and parents

all of the above and so much more

Is this not just putting support back in place that used to be offered by health vistors and was cut? Or sure start?

I think that "experts" who push their shit books and courses are part of the issue. They over complicate everything.

Regardless i don't think that it is terrible if parents need support. Parenting doesn't come naturally to everyone.

Spot on about parenting tasks being over-complicated by so much conflicting ‘expert’ advice.

@VioletsTale Some schools have care assistants. It’s a bit like the reverse of a care home! I don’t believe teachers do change nappies but TAs do. Schools need care assistants. Maybe shared on a peripatetic basis.

I think the scale of the problem is probably anecdotal but there’s no one saying potty training is where it was even 25 years ago. It’s very much parental attitude and gentle parenting as well as lazy parenting.

The village notion was outdated decades ago. Who lived with family all around and other willing helpers even in the 60s? We didn’t and I don’t know anyone who did.

I totally agree with this, but I do think parents are getting mixed messages.

They've also been told to distrust the help or advice their own parents or elders might give. As likely to be out of date or even dangerous or abusive.

And the worst I think is they aren't learning or being given any tools. Don't spank, don't yell, don't let them cry, don't make them sit at table till they eat, don't ... And every solution given instead tends to be massively time consuming.

There also isn't much social help given with boundaries. It's hard for parents to do it alone but now we are told every family makes their own decisions and that's ok. You can't say to your kid, no you need to go to bed at 8 by yourself, like your friends all will be.

My son will very likely always need intimate care. He's currently in Year 6 and will be starting mainstream secondary school next September.

He has no chance of a specialist school and it wouldn't be appropriate for him anyway for several reasons.

Having brought up three children, I know that teaching children independent skills made my life easier in the longer run, and was definitely worth the short term effort.

I do remember worrying before I started toilet training the eldest, because there wasn’t a lot of information or support - not that I could find, anyway - and I wanted more pointers and ways to avoid pitfalls. But in the end, we muddled through, and he seemed to survive my lack of skill!

There does seem to be more information and support now, and that can only be a good thing.

So what did people do before surestart?,,,,,,

My son isn't even the most severely autistic kid in reception and he isn't mild but it will get worse if the government gets to do what it wants re SEND.

I am not sure it is appropriate for mine either. He doesn't have a learning disability and is in fact incredibly bright so even the SENCO don't think it is appropriate for him. He probably wouldn't get into one anyway.