To be appalled that parents need to be supported by government to potty train their child

[Wisefishswimpast]

That^^

Why are these parenting fails happening? - not potty trained for starting school, tooth extractions in young children, rising obesity rates….

Is there no accountability?
Why is this happening?

YANBU - parenting standards have declined which is terrible

YABU - this is how things are because….<explanation>

I know there will be exceptions to the above, for example certain health conditions, late maturation of signals between brain and bladder. I am referring to the more widespread rise in these instances.

I agree to an extent, but you have to be strong minded and do what’s right. I’ve always told mine that I don’t care what others are doing. My children have always been expected to sit at the table to eat, lower voices, take shoes off indoors, say please and thank you, put dirty clothes in the laundry basket, tidy up toys before bed, have limited screen time, etc. It’s basic stuff, and needs to be expected from the off so it becomes routine without conflict. Parents need to direct rather than ask- they should be unapologetically in charge!

OK, well your post kind of illustates what I was talking about earlier on.
To me, it's completely obvious in every walk of life that someone who has beem through something before you have -especially something as complex as patenting - might be of use to you but time and time again you see that wealth of experience is brushed aside unceremoniously by new mothers who are convinced they know it all, armed with the latest parenting fad and the dreaded 'research' (which changes all the time anyway)
Children are children. They don't change. On that basis, I woukd say my 30+ years of parenting DOES give me ' some sort of amazing advantage and knowledge' that might just be of much use to you as it was to me
Can you imsgine stsrting a new job and telling someone who had been doing it fir 30 years that they were doing it all wrong and they knew nothing? Maybe that's what happens now.
I cannot imagine 'advice that is so outdated that it made my ears hurt to listen to it' but i suppose if you are so convinced you know it all and no one's help is of value to you, crack on.
One last thing - advice and best practice change all the time. On day, your daughter will be sneering at the baby-led regime so fashionsble now and tell you you know nothing and you will feel exactly the same as us 'older mothers' feel now.

This is so true. I also reckon its actually easier doing it with an 18-24 month old who is less stubborn, than with a 3 year old. So people delay because their 2 year old "isnt showing signs of readiness" and then kind of miss the window & struggle with a stubborn 3 year old who cant be bothered.

I dont think nurseries help, they often quickly ask you to put children back in nappies if they arent rock solid on it, or expect 2 year olds to wipe themselves totally independently. Wereas my eastern european childminder firmly approved of me doing it at 2 & supported it, and had reasonable expectations that 2 year olds need prompting & help.

My son doesn't have a learning disability either.

I've been a Y5/6 teacher for 13 years, and I absolutely love it, but if I was ever put in Reception I'd be gone in days. Possibly hours. I don't know how you guys do it, but I'm glad you do!

Again I’ll say something provocatively. Is the mixing of SEN and non-SEN children not the base issue?
It seems the two groups, especially the more ‘severe’ SEN have vastly different needs.
Wouldn’t it be fairer to have some separation?

For the children who can't cope in mainstream, absolutely.

That isn't automatically going to be the case just because a child needs intimate care though.

@Rubydobydo I think many people do think there should be separate units for dc who need greater attention to access school. For example, nurture groups and even special schools. EPs can certainly identify needs earlier than 4. Schools in some areas are overwhelmed and they need a far more creative approach to accommodate dc. Intimate care is a special need. It just doesn’t affect learning in many cases but it might be a symptom of learning difficulties,

"Research by early years organizations and reports highlighted by The Guardian show that roughly one in four (26%) reception pupils are not toilet trained, with rates rising as high as 36% in certain regions like the North-East. 1]"

I'm trying to remember if kids were just left to have accidents in my day (70's and 80's). I remember classmates having accidents in junior school, they'd have to go to the office for dry clothes.

Children may not change but technology and scientific knowledge does. I haven't found the current generation of mother's to be sneery. But I have experienced a lot of that from the previous generations of mothers. My MIL has a lot to say about rear facing car seats for example. It wouldn't be a all suitable to whip one out from the 90s or just not use one at all for our 2 year old (I definitely didn't have one at that age!). She was also horrified by me breastfeeding until 2, waiting until 6 months to introduce solids, that we haven't left him to cry etc. I would love to take advice from her but it sometimes feels like our experiences are worlds apart. And the judgement can be quite cruel.

I agree but this support needs to be started at around a child’s second birthday so that the appalling situation we have now is prevented to a great extent.

In the late 90s, playgroup tended to be 2.5-3 hours a couple of mornings a week, run by a paid member of staff and a rota of parent volunteers. Did the children of FT working parents attend them? The work colleagues I knew back then with children tended to send them to the office’s on-site crèche for full days of care.

Our local playgroup is now a ‘childcare setting’, open 50 weeks per year, 7am - 6pm. The health visitors who were available in weekly open clinics from midwife-handover at two weeks to school age have disappeared. The sure start group in the local village hall was an early casualty of the 2015 conservative government. Parenting young children has become a service to buy in or a very lonely endeavour.

In the past, it was common for reception aged children to have the occasional little accident. Even children who have been toilet trained for a long time can have the odd relapse if they are nervous or coming down with an illness for example. This was accepted and a teacher would have a few spare pairs of pants to hand and would quickly deal with the puddle on the floor. This is very different from having to change a child’s nappy on a daily basis, though.

They had regular, easy access to a health visiting team.

@KeepDancing1, it is easy to blame political parties. The Labour Party has been in power for over two years now and what moves have they made to reinstate these services? All political parties seem to be as bad as each other.

I thought that is what you meant. The kindred survey doesn’t actually say that children are in nappies. I’ve read it before several times. It references frequent toilet mishaps and being able to use the toilet completely independently. So being able to undress/dress , wipe, flush, wash hands completely independently. It doesn’t necessarily/automatically mean that 26% of children start reception in nappies.

I am surewe have coped throughout our human evolution and without surestart. It's pure laziness. By the way i liked surestart, it did help people but it's not the reason.

TikTok generation who already have a short attention span and can't do things for themselves having children of their own and not having a clue, i'd guess.

But if outcomes improve with help then is it laziness? Wouldn't outcomes stay the same? The scheme gave out guides and put on workshops. None of the parents were forced to read or attend.

Sure Start was not well targeted. It didn’t prevent parents not potty training! Half the mums who needed it didn’t go!

It may not have been but the institute for fiscal studies believe that for every £1 spent on sure start it generated £2.05 in long term finance benefits. You can't force people to use the services but it obviously made a difference to some.

Same with this potty training initiative. They aren't forcing people to read the booklets or attend the workshops. But it has shown to make a massive difference. People are using it. So surely its money we'll spent and saves the public in the long term?

I completely agree with this. My son is 19mo and I've not gone full no nappies anymore yet but he's been using a potty part time at home since 12 months, I've just got my MIL a potty at hers as he goes once a week and will ask for no.2 (sometimes a wee). I'm doing nappy free chunks of time at home as well now, with joggers or leggings on so he sees what happens when he doesn't ask for the potty or go to it on the floor.

But I've even had lovely MIL tell me not to rush him, nursery has said they'll be supportive but if a child doesn't show "distress" at using the potty, he moves out of the baby room at 22/23 months anyway. I wanted to get some more evidence of him asking for and using the potty for wees at home before I asked nursery to do the same. And he's only there 2 days a week.

Wish I could be at home with him full time but we can't afford it and I also can't take annual leave (teacher). Best bet for the full no nappies might be over Christmas when we've got a bigger chunk of time off school and nursery. That is to say, I feel privileged compared to houses that have to have two full time incomes, but still feeling the constraints of getting childcare on board.

Also I've definitely noticed on here and parents of kids aged 5+ this idea of wait for readiness, age 3+ before you even begin potty training and they'll get it in a weekend.

Yes of course but I don’t agree with teachers or TAs having this to deal with

Well what is your solution then? All disabled children stay at home until they get a specialist place or be home schooled?