To be appalled that parents need to be supported by government to potty train their child

[Wisefishswimpast]

That^^

Why are these parenting fails happening? - not potty trained for starting school, tooth extractions in young children, rising obesity rates….

Is there no accountability?
Why is this happening?

YANBU - parenting standards have declined which is terrible

YABU - this is how things are because….<explanation>

I know there will be exceptions to the above, for example certain health conditions, late maturation of signals between brain and bladder. I am referring to the more widespread rise in these instances.

Yes exactly. And there is absolutely no shame in needing some help like some posters here seem to be saying. Leaflets and drop-in sessions are a great idea, especially because they are backed up by stats.

The health visiting service was non-existent in my area, DD never had a two year check.

There's levels of laziness though.

Im lazy with cleaning. Sometimes I need the incentive of someone coming round to actually do a proper full clean.
Others would be even lazier and not even bother cleaning if someone was coming round.

Same with potty training. You've got the first type who cba but once they know someone is 'on to you' so to speak (ie giving you a leaflet or inviting you to a session) they'll do it. Others won't no matter what - but I'd assume hope they're rarer.

I'll say it then.
Having a toilet trained child is clearly much easier than faffing with nappies.
Putting in the effort to get your child to that point is a lot more faff than continuing with nappies.
So many take the lazier/easier/'kinder'/'more gentle'/'child-led option. Choose which adjective you like.
Clearer now?7

@CuteOrangeElephant I don’t know what the HVs do now. I’ve heard restricted to most vulnerable parents dc and presumably that links in with SS involvement.

It was clear before that you were choosing to miss the pps point. You can't just choose whichever adjective from your list, they mean different things. As I said before I'm not saying that there isn't an issue but I think to call it laziness is wrong. If it were just laziness the scheme wouldn't have been so successful.

What adjective would you use for "can't be bothered until someone pulls you up for not doing it" then?

Or sometimes, just realising/it being acknowledged that no you don’t have to wait until they’re ready and that yes you did left it too late , so get on with it whatever it takes.

Like I said, there’s a mum seeking advice right now about potty training. Dozens of poster telling her he’s just not ready yet and to leave it/wait.

I did wonder if my posts were really that confusing/badly expressed.

Could sending a leaflet guide and offering support be classed as pulling someone up? I think that is a stretch. We shall have to agree to disagree.

This is the type of stupidity that got parents so bloody lazy in the first place. Sure Start wasn’t always around and, strangely enough, parents were able to potty train WITHOUT any help before the nambyamby Labour government started treating everyone like senseless idiots who couldn’t think of do for themselves.

Because, with the exception of disabilities which have been discussed at length, parents have been abdicating their responsibility to get their children ready for school; in particular in respect to toilet training, which should have been done years before.

@CywIarBachthis is insane. It’s also a dignity issue for the kids: imagine sitting in your own poo when you’ve the skills to use the toilet independently, but your parents never taught you?!

I really feel for you in your job, also.

I hate lazy parents. So I just got a job, and yesterday one of the kids we look after kept getting put back in nappies even tho hes fully potty trained and can tell us when he needs to go. The mom yells at my coworker and now me for potty training him

Perhaps AI could train them

yes it’s become so ridiculous

That isn't going to happen though because it costs money.

Because it’s easier than toilet training!

Maybe. It could also be that parents expect nurseries to do it?

Is also the case that sometimes after 30 years you can be so stuck in your routines and refuse to learn anything new that a 20yo wirh fresh eyes and ideas can indeed turn up and rock the workplace, just saying! Age and irrelevant/outdated experience dont have to be praised just because you like to preach.

Right. Well we'll end it there then. Fresh pair of eyes is one thing, but I can't imsgine being so arrogant thst i would brush aside experience as outdated and irrelevant but there is the problem and one of the reasons we have infants in nappies.

Toilet training doesn't change.

I can’t believe how judgemental people are being on this thread, there is a massive issue with people being told to wait until the kid is ready (frequently on this site) and instead of celebrating that there is work to combat this to get kids potty trained, people are attacking the parents again.

Also, it can be awful potty training a kid, so much mess, and can go on for months if they withhold poo or don’t want to use toilets out and about. Now you absolutely have to work through that as a parent and that is your job, but having a support group to vent seems only to the good.

(Nb no skin in this game, my childminder considered my DD late to potty train, think she was 3 as I waited for warmer weather, but we managed it in a weekend in the end for the day, night nappies were more of a battle)

None of which in new or unique to today's toddlers.
A bit of judgement might have stopped us getting into this mess in the first place.

The messaging has changed though - that’s my point - the wait until they’re ready brigade are what parents are hearing.

I agree that the waiting until ready message was really harmful. I know I got a lot of raised eyebrows when I admitted I'd started training not because I thought my child was especially ready but because I was getting so repulsed by changing soiled nappies it was time for me.

I really think we need a serious debate about inclusion in education. One real downside that has been brought up on this thread is that it does blur the boundaries of what's acceptable for school age children. The pressure to train before school or else they will have to be kept at home did work really well for most people.

Something strange that I noticed was that disposable nappies cost virtually the same now as they did 35 years ago.

I was watching a lady on TV, who has led this 'groundbreaking' campaign, and she was saying that you can start sitting a kid on a pot as soon as they are comfortable to do so. We used to know this. But we also used to wash nappies because disposables were really expensive. Wanting to get away from that nappy bucket was my motivation. Breakfast > potty sit > nappy on, lunch > potty sit > nappy on, dinner > potty sit > nappy on. Eventually, nappy didn't need to go on. Lots of precise praise, combined with knowing what it meant to feel clean (terry towelling squares definitely left them sitting in their own soggy / saggy mess) meant they virtually potty trained themselves. They made choices. All 3 of them. Including the severely disabled one who had to crawl commando style to his pot and indicate that he wanted to be lifted.

But there again, we lived in a community where neighbours would talk to each other and support each each other. And we had an actual health visitor who would regularly pop round and offer useful advice. We also had cheap as chips nursery care and pre-school every morning (or afternoon if that was your preference) once kiddos got to the age of 3.

In other words, people are like water. If you give them convenient and inexpensive solutions, i.e. low cost disposables, then they'll naturally flow towards that useage. Quadruple the price of nappies, so that they're in line with inflation over the last 35 years, and I'm willing to bet the potty training crisis will disappear.