To be appalled that parents need to be supported by government to potty train their child

[Wisefishswimpast]

That^^

Why are these parenting fails happening? - not potty trained for starting school, tooth extractions in young children, rising obesity rates….

Is there no accountability?
Why is this happening?

YANBU - parenting standards have declined which is terrible

YABU - this is how things are because….<explanation>

I know there will be exceptions to the above, for example certain health conditions, late maturation of signals between brain and bladder. I am referring to the more widespread rise in these instances.

Exactly.

My son is incontinent but specialist provision would be completely inappropriate for him for several reasons. He'd also never come close to getting a place.

i know this’ll be shot down but why don't teachers and their TAs refuse to change the child, and ask the parent to be in hand for when a change is needed. That’d soon sort it out.

They're not allowed to.

But why are they not allowed to?
Their job is to teach. So maybe send them to prepare school lunch as well. Is that their job?
I just cannot understand how we’ve got to this situation.

The actual teaching has become a miniscule part of a teacher's job. Some teacher's do actually get asked to do tasks waaaaay out of their remit like preparing lunch. It's a big factor in the teacher retention crisis. Most love the teaching and working with children part but are fed up of the ridiculous and ever increasing expectations outside of that.

Because it protects children who have SEND so they can't be discriminated against.

This does mean that for children who may still be in nappies or have occasional accidents without SEND are protected too. It isn't always obvious at 4 if a child is having issues due to parents or because they have SEND which is why it is just a standard policy.

They simply don’t answer their phone and they know that a child will not be left in a soiled nappy. No shame!

Teachers and TAs should not be changing nappies Sen or not - it's an appalling situation. Specialist staff should be funded - perhaps by the lazy parents!

Oh get off your high horse. Never mind your ignorant comment about SEN , but you do realise that many schools have pre schools and nurseries staffed by… wait for it, teachers and TAs. Some of the children starting are only 2/2.5.

No teaching staff should be changing nappies! How on earth can you think that this is ok?

It's the only way my child (SEND) can attend school. If TA's don't change him, he can't go to school.

He has no chance of specialist provision and obviously specialist staff to change children isn't getting funded any time soon (ever).

I understand that and sympathise but inclusion policies should come with funding to manage that. Staff in pre school and nurseries would obviously have an expectation to deal with changing babies but a primary school teacher should not expect to be dealing with feces everyday. There should be appropriate funding if that is the policy.

While that’s undoubtedly true (I have a non- verbal, profoundly autistic little boy in nappies in my year 4 class - he keeps getting rejected from the local special school and mum won’t try any further away) - it isn’t actually ok that general classroom TAs and teachers are having to do this. If he had a 1:1 and that was part of their job description, fair enough, but this is becoming incredibly rare at a time when need seems to be increasing. More than once already this year I have had to go and change a very wet little chap and leave my class unattended in the middle of a lesson. They are aware of why.
It’s not nice for him, unfair on them due to loss of learning and not what I signed up for.

Children in school who need to be changed are required to have a written intimate care plan which provides names of staff who have permission to change the child which is then signed off.

My son's class teacher isn't on the intimate care plan and in my experience they never are as they obviously are teaching the class. It is usually TA's who are named on the intimate care plan which is the case for my son.

More funding would always be good but unfortunately, it just isn't happening.

@twinkletoesimnot If he has a EHCP for a special school, he should have TA hours in a mainstream school funded by the LA.

Nursery staff toilet train children alongside parents, not instead of. You can suggest to parents their child is ready to toilet train but if the parents don't listen there's only so much the staff can do.

If he has an EHCP, why doesn't he have 1:1 TA support?

It’s grim that parents of non special needs children really don’t do the basics, such as toilet trading. There really are no excuses. 🤷‍♀️

Its not how it works anymore unfortunately. Fewer and fewer councils will approve 1:1 written in to an EHCP (because then it becomes legal and they know they won't fund it).

1:1 or 2:1 are almost exclusively for severe behaviour needs, abscondors, or very occasionally high medical needs. Being non-verbal in a mainstream classroom isn't enough to get appropriate funding (according to the 🤬🤬🤬 council's anyway).

If a parent can't/won't fight for what their child is legally entitled to, i.e. a suitable education, they won't get it. Parents that spend all their waking hours fighting still don't get appropriate education!

The whole system is in crisis.

Because 2 yos aren’t quite reliably potty trained and yet here they are. So a TA might be changing nappies in preschool in the morning and supporting in ks2 in the afternoon. Just like I changed nappies when I covered there for a week despite being a Y6 TA .There’s an understanding that there might be a need to nappy change in EYFS. Same in SEN hubs(in mainstream) , particularly those with severe learning difficulties. They’re still teachers, they’re still TAs, they might move around, they might be covered by someone else.

It just shows how ignorant some people are of the system and how it actually works (or doesn’t work as it’s often the case).

I have 4 kids with EHCPs in my current class. Do you really think councils would fund 4 members of staff for each one of them? Ha!

You're lucky if you even get 1 full time TA for the 4 of them to share!

My son has an EHCP with 2:1.

I’m the TA. For the whole class to share. Run off my feet is an understatement. Because despite no funding , there’s the usual class work, 3 need sensory circuits but two can’t have them at the same time, pre teaching sessions for all 4, interventions, one need to be supervised when using the toilet, two need full support during input/classwork , several adjustments , we have a new kid now that is also a school refuser and needs easing in and the list goes on, and on, and on. Most days I’m behind before the day has even started.