To be appalled that parents need to be supported by government to potty train their child

[Wisefishswimpast]

That^^

Why are these parenting fails happening? - not potty trained for starting school, tooth extractions in young children, rising obesity rates….

Is there no accountability?
Why is this happening?

YANBU - parenting standards have declined which is terrible

YABU - this is how things are because….<explanation>

I know there will be exceptions to the above, for example certain health conditions, late maturation of signals between brain and bladder. I am referring to the more widespread rise in these instances.

But what knowledge do you actually need?

Also the ones in full time nursery are not the ones still in nappies

The private nursery near us gets a lot of pushback from parents and I wonder if they have to back off a bit as parents are paying customers. I also don’t think the nursery has high enough expectations for the children regarding personal skills.
Some children start nursery at 3 and it’s a massive uphill battle to help them if they’re already very behind.

Rtft

Yip!!
Well screen time is a symptom of lazy parenting so it stands to reason screen use is the tip of the iceberg.

Yes, my DD (8) had an 'atypical speech sound disorder' and slight speech delay (barely putting two words together by 2yo, and very small vocab at that stage). She had 2 years of intensive SALT (pre-school/ reception), she is NT, top in her class by a massive margin at reading, one of the top at Maths, very confident sociable and emotionally mature. When she was little she didn't want to be read to as it distressed her due to whatever was going on in her brain. I'm an older mum and had waited years to read the full collection of julia donaldson books to her, so it wasn't a lack of trying. But I did make up family photobooks every year and DD would spend ages going though them and talking about all the pictures, and the playgroup encouraged me to send the photobooks in for them to 'read' with her too.

DDs speech disorder was identical to one her great aunty had SALT for in the 1950s, therefore genetic and neurodevelopmental. The brain is still so mysterious!

My DD was a lockdown toddler, and is an only child and I experienced significant misplaced guilt that I got something wrong until MIL and her other sister started reminising about their little sister and the speech excercises they did with her and we realised the link. I also felt judged at times.

She was potty trained by 2 though - so 'language' is definetly NOT a prerequisite for potty training.

@arlequin They cannot be refused a nursery or school place with a nappy. Of course some are in nappies!

@MeetMeOnTheCornermaybe some. But nurseries do loads to support potty training

Since seven months my grandson sits on a potty first thing, and mostly has a first poo whilst doing so. He’s 13 months now, and seems to accept it as routine.

A friend’s daughter tried agency cleaning a couple of years ago. She was out working nine hours a day, but because she wasn’t paid for travelling between houses, she only got paid for five. If she was sick or took a holiday, she earned nothing, so she felt she couldn’t afford any time off. She also tried home care and another job I can’t remember, and it was much the same. She’s now teaching English in Japan.
I don’t think you realise what people in these jobs are dealing with in the UK: putting in full-time hours for part-time pay, with little security and barely any room to be ill, take a break or deal with family responsibilities.

I have but what actual knowledge is needed to potty train?

this is something that societies have done for thousands of years

But they still needed and had knowledge, but this was gained from living in large multi-generational families where they grew up seeing and helping parent younger siblings, cousins, nieces and nephews.

My son gets a very limited amount of screen time, but to be honest, as a very active child, we only cracked the patience to sit and wait for poos finally by using Ms Rachel's potty video.

If a child is going to be sat with a screen, it might as well be on the potty with content about using the potty.

@Periperi2025I think it’s more that nappies are so easy now. There’s loads of potty training info about

But I think the potty training info out there is the wrong info, the ethos in the UK now is all about readiness and language - which anyone on here who has early potty trained will tell you is just rubbish.

@Periperi2025def agree with you there!

We paid 30 years ago. The nurseries set the expectations but, of course, there was no government subsidy.

Ours weren't potty trained very early and I began to despair. At about two, the potty was introduced. Upstairs and downstairs and the dc were sat on it with little success when they woke up, after lunch, after tea, before bed and it became part of the routine. We went nappy free unsuccessfully at 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.5. 2.6 coincided with start of July and I hoped to crack during the summer months when being wet and the washing mountain wasn't an issue. No success and after a week he went back in nappies. At the end of August I accepted he probably wouldn't stary nursery until January. On 1sr September, he looked at me as I held the nappy and said "want pants, big boy". So pants he had and as we were going to the supermarket I inwardly rolled my eyes and packed clean clothes. At the checkout, he tugged me and said "need a wee wee". That was it. 2.8 and never an accident. He was dry at night at 2.9.

I used a similar approach with dd who tried harder but didn't fully crack it until 2.9. However, I had to lift her when I went to bed to avoid accidents until she was 5. She drank a lot more than ds during the evenings.

They were both very relia ly pptty trained well before three but it wasn't a one or two week fix, it involved a lot of routine and a lot of false starts but I'd say, they did it as soon as they were ready.

They'll do it when they are ready is correct but laying good foundations helps them to be ready. That isn't done on one summer holiday.

I sincerely doubt there is a correlation between single working mums and a decline in potty training, no one here suggested that but you.

My daughter took ages to train but soon after she turned 3 she was done, and we both worked. In terms of when do they have a chance to teach them - every day. Its not like every second of the day is needed, on weekends and evenings pop the child on the potty in the bathroom or the toilet seat a couple of times a day, run the tap, put them in training pants, ask nursery/childminder/grandparents or whoever looks after them during the day to be consistent too, the child will eventually learn even if it takes months.

This is not the responsibility of school.

It was a myth created by Pampers circa 2002 when they brought out pull up nappies. A completely well executed marketing exercise, at a time when the birth rate was dropping and sales of disposables were dropping. Child doesn't care how a nappy fastens. A whole marketing hype about how to ready your baby for potty training by using the (double the price and no doubt 3x profitable) pull ups. Guides written and published as advertorial in every baby magazine for months on end plus loads on the new phenomenon that was the internet that stated along the lines of 'Wait until your child is ready' - well of course they're NOT going to be ready if you don't explain to your child what's going on and what your expectations are! And completely contradicted the government guidelines in the booklet the health visitor brought round!

If she had a child - which is the scenario we are talking about - then I assume she also received UC which helps to plug the gap.

Not a popular opinion but it’s the same accross the board. No accountability! There seems to be a shift towards being so understanding that it’s actually having a negative impact. A perfect example of this is the obesity crisis, it’s a ‘disease’ apparently, but it’s the only disease that you can prevent entirely on your own! I understand partly why the WHO declared it as such as to try and remove the stigma and get folk out exercising and not shy away but I think the opposite can be said and people genuinely believe it’s not on them and somehow they have cravings that others don’t. It’s not as bad now with the jabs but it’s an example.

Another example is everyone off with MH and anxiety claiming benefits and kids not going to school. I know of 3 people who had children and they never went to school because they were anxious and hated it. They’ll proclaim it was the best thing for their child, fair enough but if every child refused to go to school and the parents allowed them to stay off society would break down.

Our toddler is very active, unfortunately doesn’t nap really (no clue where she gets all the energy) and doesn’t want to sit on the potty when she could be doing something else. I’m hoping with her finally
in nursery and seeing other children her age stopping and going to the potty will help her see that she can go back to playing easily.

The fact that I’m the only one suggesting it is neither here nor there. Either toddlers’ ability to learn has declined, or something has changed in the parenting they’re receiving. If studies don’t support a drop in IQ as the explanation, then we need to look at parenting and what’s affecting it. More mothers are raising children alone, while the quality and security of the work available to them have declined. It doesn’t take rocket science to put two and two together.

As for your experience with potty training, that’s neither here nor there either. I took a week off to potty train and my daughter did quite well with her wees from the onset but it took her a few months to be comfortable doing her number two's on the potty. Neither your experience nor mine explains why parents at large are struggling, especially with children as old as 4.

Yes, but as I said earlier, disabilities, whether obvious or not do not account for 25% of four-year-olds still being in nappies. This is a disgraceful figure and, for at least 95% of that quarter, QUARTER of children, there are no excuses other than parental laziness.

I also think it’s this.

honestly I think people are really ignorant around screen use and young children. Even parents being on their phones; scrolling and watching rubbish whilst their children are present. It’s absolutely toxic and is going to have severe long term consequences. I think this will become worse and worse tbh until people wake up to the fact we are all addicted to looking at rubbish on our phones. (Not including MN in that😂)