To be appalled that parents need to be supported by government to potty train their child

[Wisefishswimpast]

That^^

Why are these parenting fails happening? - not potty trained for starting school, tooth extractions in young children, rising obesity rates….

Is there no accountability?
Why is this happening?

YANBU - parenting standards have declined which is terrible

YABU - this is how things are because….<explanation>

I know there will be exceptions to the above, for example certain health conditions, late maturation of signals between brain and bladder. I am referring to the more widespread rise in these instances.

If these children have been with childminders/at nurseries because both parents work, questions surely have to be asked about the quality of the childcare.

Our DC are grown up enough for one to have a DC. Only a few months old but already read to daily.

When our DC were at primary there was a Blair initiative at getting children to eat nicely at the table. There posters around the school about holding knives and forks and properly placing them on the plate when finished. They were incorrect. It was a school in a very nice area, where parents were well educated. We hooted.

Just because you managed to with your autistic child doesn't mean it will be the same for other children who are the same. My profoundly autistic nephew is still in nappies at eight.

You think this only applies to poor parents? Your post stinks of snobbery.

This is true but I would say that autistic children have been particularly poorly served by the advice to "wait for signs of readiness" before training as they often need longer to train due to bowel issues and problems with proprioception and sensory issues amd also because they are generally more rigid in their behaviours and find it harder to "unlearn" things.

You have missed the point. If teachers wish to criticise parents, their own standards need to be exemplary.

When exactly do you expect single working mothers on zero-hours contracts to potty train their children? Around two-thirds of single parents work, and 36% of single-parent families have no savings. Gingerbread’s 2020 research also found that single parents were twice as likely to be on zero-hours contracts as other family types. Taking time off isn’t always something they can afford.

I’m saying this as a mother who found it easy to potty train my daughter when she turned two in my circumstances. But just because I managed it doesn’t mean everyone has the same circumstances. I can understand why some mothers struggle.

I have not written one word where I have criticised parents of children of profound disabilities like your nephew and it has nothing to do with the discussion. I knew someone of a similar age to me who could not control her bladder because she had spina bifida. This was her only symptom of the condition and it took years to realise what the problem was. Eventually, pioneering major surgery that has since become routine for this condition, cured it. There have always been outliers. However, there is a world of difference between your nephew, my son and the lady I mentioned, all of whom have significant disabilities, and the children and parents under discussion here. You must have noticed how many parents use a disability, particularly self-diagnosed autism as an excuse for bad behaviour and not meeting societal norms. My biggest bugbear is "he's a little bit autistic," usually said with the MN tinkly laugh. No, he isn't. He is either autistic or he isn't; he cannot be "a little bit autistic." It is easy to jump on the disabilities bandwagon but disabilities cannot account for 25% of four-year-olds still being in nappies.

I absolutely can believe it.If you've never seen a book before, how would you know how to use one?

Most of the problems are selfish parenting -
in the nineties, nappies only went up to size 5-6, no nappies for bigger children after about 3 years old. Disabled children needed bigger nappies but could only 3-5 per day from NHS. Now nappies go up bigger to allow for later training. NT parents with NT children assume they can just wait and take advantage

Same with disabled spaces on buses, disabled people campaigned hard - now the selfish parents are taking those spaces and refusing to fold buggies or move

Children had to be toilet trained to attend playgroup at 2.5. Rightly so, ND children were exempt but then selfish parents jumped on the bandwagon and it then it had to be open to everyone

Yes, parents work but this is been a long time and not too recent. Everyone gets a minimum level of annual leave - forego the holiday, spend a week per parent to toilet train your child. Two will prob be enough for the majority of children

Then you have the screen issues added into the mix, parent and child not interacting.

Children need to be taught many skills, most don't happen through just development. Screens are ruining our children but lazy parents just want an 'easy life'

I read that thread and the poster's earlier threads on the subject and can't believe that mum's cba attitude and the excuses she's made. Even now, with her 4.5 year old at school she's not making any effort, the school has to change her child and she's not making any effort at home to teach her - it was too much work for her to even walk with her dd to the bathroom last week so she changed her in the living room. The laziness of some parents is shocking. I feel sorry for the teachers and teaching assistants that have to deal with these sort of parents.

Well the same as any other single working parent? Even if you can't take leave the toddler is still either in a childcare setting or at home with the parent, so potty training can of course still happen with good communication between the parent and the setting.

Just about everyone on this thread has been quite clear that we are not talking about disabled or autistic children here. We're talking about children who have no reason to be still in nappies other than patental inertia.
I don't know why the thread has been disrailed by patents taking the hump over criticism that was not aimed at them and was clearly stated so.

My child is autistic and needs nappies with her bladder issues and I feel bad for the staff in 2 years

Same.

Some children are more difficult and stubborn about it than others which isn’t anything new and I was told not to force it and stress the child and myself over it (easier said than done on my end). I think if the child is fine in most areas and struggling only with one or two with SEN not being a part of it, the parents are likely doing their best vs just being lazy.

Ah yes. The what about argument.
Are you suggesting that children on single mothers on 0 hours contract don't need to be toilet trained?
Assuming you think they do, the answer is you just get on with it.

It won't be true for everyone, but we had excellent support from our nursery.

I took a Friday off before I bank holiday and focused on it for four days. Then nursery supported for three days, before another day off for a long weekend. He got it in three weeks, and we needed to do more laundry whilst he was doing it, and focus on training him rather than doing whatever we wanted.

I'm not pretending it's easy, nothing is easy when you're a single parent. But whilst they might work, they will.still use childcare, which can help, and they can still take time off.

Besides, the child will HAVE TO learn at some point, and it's actually easier when they're smaller. What makes it easier for them to do it if they put it off?

Because it isn't always obvious at 4 if a child isn't potty trained due to a disability/autism etc or if it's because they have lazy parents.

If we are talking about banning disposable nappies, not allowing children to attend school who aren't potty trained etc it really isn't as simple as just throwing ''but not those who are disabled'' at the end of something which could really affect disabled children and their families.

Absolutely!

I also wonder whether the single intake in September, meaning children who are only just 4 start school has exacerbated the not ready for school issues. My two, born in May and January started well into their 5th year, which meant they were very ready. I see children starting now at 4 and a few days (the August babies) who always seem to be trying to catch up with those who are nearly a year older.

I tell you why. When someone says it is disgraceful that a TA is changing nappies they are not exactly making parents of those ND kids feel great. Do you get what I mean? You can say they are exempt but comments like that make parents feel guilty. There have been comments that children like mine shouldn't be in mainstream if they need changing. Perhaps people should resist with these type of comments?

It is.

A parent who has tried to potty train will have that conversation with the reception teacher before they start (either at a home visit or phone call or intake form...there is always some kind of information gathering before they start).
Edit: or explain the barriers to potty training if not tried.

A parent who cba would not. They'd just state bluntly that they're still in nappies. And probably ignore any suggestions made by the teacher.

Especially if they know little about specialist provision and how getting a space is as rare as hens teeth and that's the most disabled children who desperately need specialist provision.

I'd be laughed out of the building if I suggested my son can't attend mainstream because he is incontinent. He doesn't come close to meeting any criteria where it would be considered.

They aren't.

Surestart didn't exist when I started school and any child who had turned up wearing a terry nappy would have been bullied mercilessly.

Disposable pull up pants are too comfortable for the children and to easy for the parents. They both need an incentive to bother to toilet train.

I taught in a secondary in 2013 where kids living less than 60 miles from the coast hadn't seen the sea. That's about opportunity as well as parenting.

It's incomprehensible that parents aren't even thinking about teaching the absolute basics of life - basic and table manners, how to read a book (as in sit quietly, turn pages not read out the words), toilet training when no send, dressing themselves, I could go on...

That doesn't make sense. If mothers on zero hours are working full time then they can afford to take time off. If they are not working full time then they don't need to take time off to potty train.

Being a single parent involves plenty of parenting and the vast majority of single mothers are fully aware of that.

1. Starting pre-school at 3 actually means the parents are getting support with toileting and other basics
2. SEN - think it’s quite easy to jump on this. Of course there are children undiagnosed but there are also lots of families who blame everything apart from putting effort in. SEN doesn’t mean basics can’t be attempted
3. Working patents makes it harder but parents have to find the time, and many do