To be appalled that parents need to be supported by government to potty train their child

[Wisefishswimpast]

That^^

Why are these parenting fails happening? - not potty trained for starting school, tooth extractions in young children, rising obesity rates….

Is there no accountability?
Why is this happening?

YANBU - parenting standards have declined which is terrible

YABU - this is how things are because….<explanation>

I know there will be exceptions to the above, for example certain health conditions, late maturation of signals between brain and bladder. I am referring to the more widespread rise in these instances.

I think the advice to potty train "when children start showing you they are ready" hasn't helped.

DS1 it was very obvious as he has sensitive skin and started pulling his nappy off straight after a wee from just over 2 - he was potty trained in a week. DS2 was still completely unbothered at 3.5 which is when I decided right you are too old to still be in nappies and potty trained him - he took ages.I think it would have been quicker if I had done it the summer before when he was 2.5.

Some of these things aren't a bad thing. Free school meals and breakfast is an entirely seperate issue from potty training and for many children this is the only decent meal they get a day and I think it's a great thing it's been introduced.

Sex Ed and Citizenship have always been part of the curriculum. I'm not sure what that is to do with anything. No one thinks my child is being taught about sex at school so I don't need to potty train!

I'm also in secondary and this is absolutely my experience. Ring home and get an earful. Had an email back from a parent of a child who'd gone on their phone in class and then shouted "why did you even become a teacher if you're so sh*t at it?!" Their mum wrote to me with some of the email in all CAPS asking let me ask YOU a question, have you ever stopped to ask her about her mental health?!

Other students were also telling me this child was vaping in class and they were upset about it, I really tried but could never spot it. Another student in the class has asthma too. Absolutely nothing I could do unless caught red handed.

Nobody is talking about three things - how early kids now start full time school (often just weeks after they were still 3), the much higher percentage of kids with SEND in mainstream and the percentage of kids with 2x full time working parents to keep bills paid so kids in childcare don’t get enough one on one support with the process.

these three things explain the whole thing - it’s categoricallyNOT just fecklessness

Yes. It was encouraged to wait until they showed interest but they also had to be school ready by 3. Most people would started in the March before the September start.

Their mum wrote to me with some of the email in all CAPS asking let me ask YOU a question, have you ever stopped to ask her about her mental health?!

For fucks sake!

Ending Surestart was a disaster. Those centres did good practical work in communities

I think it's absolutely necessary that the government has a wake up call about this. They can't continue to blame "COVID years" for kids who were born long after the pandemic.

A lot of European countries have a lot more support from paediatricians and other medical professionals (speech therapist etc) in early years. At minimum a yearly check up, and direct access through self referral.

The only thing we have here are GPs who don't really care about young children, and HVs who are mostly useless (in my and my friends experience).

Plenty of parents have just no clue what to do with a toddler / pre-schoolers, and not all have the means and resources to research it.
And let's be honest, a lot of us rely on nursery staff to teach our kids the basics...

To be fair I'm 45, well aquainted with books but in denial about needing to make the switch to varifocals and I've found myself try to 'zoom in' on a page in a book in desperation on more than one occasion!!

Ah yes, let's blame working mothers. As usual.

I'm reminded of Red Dwarf when Kryten briefly became human and wondered why he could no longer use the zoom function when reading 😆

ETA - get yourself some varifocals, they really are a boon! If you're not sure about them, Specsavers will let you swap them for separate distance and reading glasses should you find you really don't get on with them after a couple of weeks' trial.

Says it all! 🌟

I think the trend follows the decline in having a SAHP who takes a direct, developmental lead in parenting. With households now largely unable to survive on one income, parents are more tired, time-poor and stressed than ever.

That’s not necessarily an excuse. DH and I have always both worked full time. I went back full time after 6 months. And our twins were fully potty trained at 2yrs old and joined reception with all the developmental milestones reached in terms of executive function. But it was incredibly, incredibly hard. Our mental health really suffered in ensuring the kids were getting everything they required, and we both felt (still feel I think) permanently stressed in making sure it happens. And I have a bloody amazing DH who took 6 months parental leave, does all the school runs and truly takes on half the mental and physical load. Most women do not have that.

I am not surprised at all that increasing numbers of parents are really struggling.

ETA, I am also lucky enough to employ cleaner and part time nanny. That is definitely not the norm and a huge privilege.

DS2 was in full time school from 3yrs 8mths. He’d been potty trained for around 18mths by then. He was able to get dressed for PE and put his uniform back on, his manners were impeccable, he could eat with a knife and fork and hold his pencil correctly. Both he, and DS1, had excellent speech too. He wasn’t the only one. The school took the 12 oldest preschool aged children so they could keep a reception teacher. They all could do these things.

Now DGS is the same. He’s not yet 3, but he’s been out of nappies a year, including nights, despite having 2 parents who work. His speech and language is exceptional. He sits at the table to eat his meal, uses a knife and fork. He can hold a pencil, form the first two letters of his name. He can get undressed, take himself for a wee, he’s starting to dress himself depending on what clothes he’s wearing, and he’s able to put his coat on. He’s never, ever been put in front of a screen. He’s allowed to watch the Julia Donaldson adaptations if he’s not well or it’s raining, or he watches David Attenborough when he’s having his nails cut. He’s been read to since he was about 3 days old, and adores books, and it shows.

Parenting is bloody hard work which too many people aren’t prepared to do. We see it on here all the time. Posters calling 4 and 5yos babies, saying it’s fine for them to be having dummies and bottles at bedtime when it’s really not. We can’t keep blaming Covid, either because kids weren’t born. If people put their phones down, got their kids off screens and actually parented them, instead of expecting someone else to do it, the world would be a much better place.

My child wasn't potty trained for starting reception as he has asd and was behind for every aspect of his developmental goals. That doesnt mean i didn't try, i tried my hardest to get him potty trained numerous times before starting reception he just wasnt ready, i think about half way through reception we finally had a breakthrough with it (was 10 years ago now) but his oral hygiene is perfect never had anything pr needed anything done, my dd potty trained reaply well before starting nursery, but she is overweight, not by loads but she is chunky. Shes still very active though her extra bit of weight isnt stopping her from being active or doing any activities. She also has asd and struggles to realise when she's full up.
These threads make me abut sad as you just know from the comments and the actual thread of op people will be judging when put in public with my children when they dont actually know the facts or anything about my children

I'd be interested to know what proportion of children who start school in nappies come from households with two working parents.

No way is this in any way down to lockdown. Most people were at home for 23 hours a day, that’s the perfect time to potty train your toddler!

You mean these people who are permanently glued to their phones have no means of finding out how to potty train. Really!!
No one told me how to do it, I think people generally pick up on the fact that you start between the ages of two and three from chats with other Mums. I understand that developmentally some will take longer. I know from my experience as a teacher there are those parents who are just too lazy to bother.

It could be this concept of “ readiness “ ?
My grandchild ( who lives in another country so I couldn’t really be there to guide /help ) was still in daytime nappies past age 3 .
I know because we visited them and I was surprised that they were in nappies still .
My own 3 were trained round about age 2 it was a lot of work and we had some accidents which is to be expected.
The 2 younger weren’t dry at night though until older and that’s not uncommon.
I always took spare clothes with me when I left the house and knew toilets location .
BTW My youngest is SEN

There is a world of difference between delaying it by a month or so between the ages of 22 months and two years and waiting for “readiness” at the age of three or four. Any normal, sensible parent would have done what l did. Would you have potty trained on a thirteen hour flight there and back? Your post is ridiculous.

The advice from our health visitor was to wait until 3. We did that with out eldest and it's turned out the advice wasn't helpful. However, it did just need a conversation as he had more understanding when he did potty train.

Our other children were 18 months and 2. Our 18 month old refused to wee in his nappy in the night so we would have to take him to the loo. That was a bit of a drag to be fair, until he could sleep through the night..
They had one accident each the first time they forgot they weren't wearing a nappy and we never had a wet bed, thankfully as we coslept and also did a lot of camping

I recognise from the descriptions here that we were very lucky. We did use cloth nappies so maybe that gave the children the feedback they needed without us having to do very much at all.

I don’t think it was unreasonable for you to delay in those circumstances. My point is that sometimes parents delay potty training for what they consider to be perfectly valid reasons - as you did. I therefore don’t think it’s fair to conclude that every parent whose child isn’t potty trained by 2.5 is lazy.

Your own experience with your son should tell you that difficulties with potty training are not necessarily because the parents couldn’t be bothered.

You also mention the advice at the time was based on ages and gender rather than the child’s ‘readiness’. You followed the advice of the time, more recent advice has spoken about ‘readiness’ so perhaps parents with young children today have felt they’re doing the right thing by following advice. In addition, modern parents are actually bombarded with advice - but not always of good quality or from those who are qualified to give it.

It’s a different landscape to the 90s, the priorities and expectations of parents have shifted massively. In both positive and negative ways.

Yes there will be some parents who are lazy or disinterested, there always has been, and that’s awful but I don’t think that’s the whole picture.

😀
It depends on the area or even particular schools but it’s an issue in schools, to varying extents.
Children might not be in full on nappies but wetting or worse soling themselves regularly means they aren’t toilet trained. As a reception teacher I can tell you out of 30 there will be at least 4/5 children we have each year who have regular accidents . in schools in some areas it will be far higher.

A lot of children aren’t used to trying foods so lunchtimes are difficult.
Children spill often because they aren’t used to using an open cup or cutlery
Children who don’t know how to read a book or if they do haven’t got the focus to look through it on their own
Children who have glasses but won’t wear them because their parents forget to bring them and/or they don’t like making their child wear them
Children in reception who can’t pull the arms out of their coat so stand there not able to put their coat on
Children crying because they aren’t used to being told no (no exaggeration)
Children who don’t know how to play as they don’t play with toys (one parent told me he’s too old for toys now - he was 5!) they just go on screens
Children who can’t occupy themselves or go a minute without interrupting because they are used to being constantly entertained and listened to

The list goes on!

@Strawberrryfields Of course times have changed but the gender difference is still valid. Girls are generally more mature in many ways than boys and especially when it comes to toilet training. Special needs are an aspect but a lot of people are using them as an excuse. Yes, I had struggles in this area with my oldest son but I peresevered and he is significantly disabled with his autism. Many parents give up too quickly now and claim "lack of readiness." I think a lot of the problems are to do with the fact that societal shame is no longer around. Not all children have the physical maturity for toilet training at the recommended ages but the vast majority do and I think there are more lazy parents in this area than there used to be.

I would quite like to point out that a lack of speech isn't always due to lack of reading to them or speaking to them. Even if it isn't autism some children just don't talk.