To be appalled that parents need to be supported by government to potty train their child

[Wisefishswimpast]

That^^

Why are these parenting fails happening? - not potty trained for starting school, tooth extractions in young children, rising obesity rates….

Is there no accountability?
Why is this happening?

YANBU - parenting standards have declined which is terrible

YABU - this is how things are because….<explanation>

I know there will be exceptions to the above, for example certain health conditions, late maturation of signals between brain and bladder. I am referring to the more widespread rise in these instances.

Also that a child who wets a disposable nappy won't feel it and be uncomfortable .

I'm sure it's a factor.

YANBU. It is the responsibility of parents to teach their children age-appropriate self-care skills, informed by common sense and pride.

Mine has one everyday because if not my spoons would never make it back from school 😂

When I was potty training DD mumsnet was awash with the whole “readiness” thing, you would get the impression that you would damage their ability to pee properly or something.

We took a week off work and let DC run around without any pants on when she was 1.5yrs there was a lot of cleaning but she started nursery mostly dry and then they were brilliant about supporting. Lots of things with kids are easier if you do it younger. I think it’s a mix of some people cba and the belief that children will magically intuit that it’s time.

Tbh as well theres no excuse really, you have loads of information at your fingertips, most of us spend way too much time on devices anyway, use some of that time to look up potty training. We also need to start shoving responsibility back on parents. Your kids not potty trained they aren’t going to school, you don’t feed your kids you are going to get hauled over the coals until you do. I’m sorry but I have zero sympathy for shit parents. We keep focusing on feeling sorry for people and trying to understand instead of just saying “stop whinging and get it done”. We just help helpless people be even more helpless.

If you need constant in person help to be told, take their pants off and keep directing them to the loo, there will be a lot of mess but they will get there to manage to do basic parenting then perhaps they just shouldn’t have children.

If parents average of potty training was 18 months instead of 30 it would be great for sustainability as neither laundry or disposable nappies would be used for the extra 12 months. Added to which the savings of labour, wipes nappies would be around £700/800

Yes of course. But thay is not happening.

I think the point of the the idea was to force parents to potty train, somehow.

It was the professional who told me to wait until DD was ready .

It was a different professional that told me that if she had no speech she had no understanding either. Literally “well, if she could understand, she ‘d be speaking!”.

It was several professionals that were utterly unconcerned with her lack of eating/drinking milk to then be racked over the coals when she was 2 because she was too short!?!

If I had listened to them, I’d be the parent you’re all bitching about.

Did your official health service also recommend waiting for signs of readiness before introducing them to potty for years? If not, there’s one main difference there.

When you are potty training you don't wear a nappy. You put your child in pants and explain to them that we wee wee in the potty. Then frequently sit them on the potty and frequently ask, "Do you need a wee wee?". You praise them if they wee in the potty. If they have an accident then they see that they are wet.

We live in an increasingly consequence-free society generally. Look up suicidal empathy.

It is not recommended to shame a child if they poo in their underwear or wee the bed.

Don't shame the child, shame the parents.

@IzzyGone I’m not sure in what era it was 18 months. Some dc are barely walking by then! My dc are 31 and 34 and no dc was potty trained in my social group before 2. Most were between 2 and 2.5. 2 was considered early. My DD1 was late at just gone 3 but then she was dry at night a month later so her learning was concentrated into a short space of time. We had tried for 6 months plus and our GP suggested I stopped for a few months and then started again. That was great advice and it worked.

Yes, these parents need to be shamed. Our nursery didn’t take non potty trained dc. There needs to be a much bigger push back from nursery and YR. Even when my dc started school, it was unusual to have dc not potty trained.

I would say though that it wasn’t unusual in some cultures. When I was working in education, I had a central TA budget to help schools who had dc arrive in yr with sen and no statement. The other issue in some schools was dc who were not potty trained. I remember one school had a record of 8/60. None white British. I’ve no doubt it’s a widespread issue now but there used to be pride in parenting, and dc meeting milestones. Now parenting is a long list of excuses and no-one cares. Children are being failed. We need tougher rules about starting school - not potty trained, dc does not start.

The insanity of month after month of lockdown didn’t help: not just this issue, but many others. Although some might argue that it meant parents had all the more time to do potty training, people lost their communities, connections, support networks, routines, and many children lost the skills they should have learned in their formative years.

It's certainly not a class thing. I have lost count of the amount of friends who are adamant that their children aren't ready for potty training.
Increasingly, people cannot bear the thought of their children upset or uncomfortable for more than a minute. So they put it off until before they know it, their child is due to start reception.
Back in the day we just used to let our children run around with no nappy on until they got it.

I've seen a few posts alluding to it been a poor thing. It isn't. It's parents been petrified of somehow damaging their child permanently by expecting anything from them.

I agree with this. There seems to be no shame or consequences any more.

as for the PP that said that this is the fault of the generation of parents above this one, you are having a laugh!! My DMum had an appalling childhood. Verbal and physical abuse and deprived of possessions, shut up for days in her room with no food or water etc. but when she had us two girls, she was a good Mum and tried to be everything her own mother was not. I could read and write and tell the time in a rudimentary fashion before I started school and all the kids in my cohort could go to the loo by themselves. This is a modern and lazy phenomenon.

Yes, I guess modern cloth nappies are a lot nicer in design than the greying, fraying terry nappies of yore!

And, yes, lower incentive for the child to move on if the nappies are no less comfortable than pants.

If we are taking the view that disposable nappies are going to remain the default, perhaps some bright spark manufacturer could take up the gauntlet - 'wet feel' nappies (in the larger sizes, not for new babies) to help with potty training - reverse whatever amazing tech 'locks moisture in' as they say in the adverts so the child will feel discomfort.

Disposable nappies can make it harder for the child to realise when they need to pee for themselves. If the child knows when they have peed themselves it will be easier when they potty train. If the child is used to be being disrupted from playing to be changed when they pee it will help too but if they can pee in their disposable nappies and be comfortable to keep playing it means they can get used to it. Disposable nappies do make potty training harder.
It's not the only factor but definitely a factor.

Why would the manufacturers of disposable nappies want to make a product to help children stop wearing them?

i remember sex ed lessons and free school meals back in the 1970s.

Competition and marketing advantage. Manufacturers at the premium end are constantly looking for differentiators - their nappies are softer, dryer, more secure etc. - but there aren't that many ways of making a nappy distinct.

Yes, they want children to keep wearing them, but at the same time they do know there is a cut-off point, there has to be for children's nappies - at a certain size/age they would become continence aids, which is a different market .

Hence nappy manufacturers do already market 'transitional' products - those pull-up nappies that look like pants which are supposed to help children make the switch. This could be another thing marketed as a transitional product.

Laws would have to change if we want to exclude children who aren't potty trained from starting school. The laws are currently in place to prevent discrimination against disabled children and/or children with medical needs which isn't always obvious at only 4.

I know several pp's have said 'exceptions for disabled children' but I think it might be easier said than done than some people may think and attempting to punish a minority of parents will also punish some parents with children who genuinely can't be potty trained by 4.

I tried very hard to potty train two of my children many times from the age of around two. I made a lot of effort. I took the nappies off. I sat them on the potty. We made zero progress. When they were ready, it was still hard work but they were closer to the age of 3 1/2. At least with one accident a day and lots of successes you feel like you’re maybe achieving something.

My other Child was at that stage much younger and was mostly potty trained at around 2 1/2 I think. But they also had accidents for good while after that and took longer to become dry at night. It is easier with some children than it is with others and it’s even easier to judge other parents when you don’t know what the experience is like for them.

@scalt But dc who are 3 or 4 now weren’t covid toddlers! They weren’t even born. I didn’t need a community or connections to potty train but I guess, for a few, the need to get on with it disappeared. That’s not the case for current 2-3 year olds though or even those starting school. So what’s their excuse?