To be appalled that parents need to be supported by government to potty train their child

[Wisefishswimpast]

That^^

Why are these parenting fails happening? - not potty trained for starting school, tooth extractions in young children, rising obesity rates….

Is there no accountability?
Why is this happening?

YANBU - parenting standards have declined which is terrible

YABU - this is how things are because….<explanation>

I know there will be exceptions to the above, for example certain health conditions, late maturation of signals between brain and bladder. I am referring to the more widespread rise in these instances.

I think that part of the problem is the state taking over more and more of what was once parents' role. Breakfast clubs, free school dinners for everyone, teachers to do toothbrushing, sex ed, citizenship... all these things were once the preserve of parents. No wonder some of today's parents think that it's down to the school to do the sometimes boring and tedious task of potty training.

I'm glad the NHS has changed its advice to a more sensible approach-an approach that many of us knew was always the correct one.

I predict that over the next 15 years, a lot of "advice" will change, to reflect the advice given in the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s and maybe the early 1980s.

This can only be a good thing.

We will know it has happened, when a poster comes along to ask for advice about what she can do about her five year old spitting at and kicking his parents and the first reply doesn't say "Is he ND?" "Does he have a PDA profile?" but rather, "Get a grip on him and start by smacking his naughty bottom."

@WouldRatherBeOnaBeach That has been government policy since the 80s. Lots of special schools closed. This lot just doubled down on it. Back in the 80s parents hated dc being segregated. Now they want it.

Schools have quite a bit of money. They have vast management layers. Strip that back and the executive head salaries and there’s money for TAs. It’s choice.

When I saw the news report I was embarrassed for the mum having her photo shared nationally and her proudly announcing she uses the potty training services. WTAF!

I remember my mother told me that kids (my generation) used to have to be potty trained before nursery would take them at 3.

Yes, lazy parenting is on the rise!

I agree with this.

Also would support banning disposable nappies except for disabilities.

Yes, my eldest was born in 1992 and started the nursery attached to the school, in the school year he turned 4.

Any NT children who were unable to use the toilet independently were simply not allowed to start until they could.

And both sessions were full to capacity.

i think so much of it is just not wanting to do the hard bits and being told that that’s ok. Everything is so child led now. I feel like that about ‘safe foods’ - my daughter is autistic and has safe foods but I see so many parents argue that their child will only eat nuggets or crisps etc and I think but you had to be giving those things to them regularly in the first place for that to have happened? I know a 2 year old who will only eat crisps and the HV said fed is best, at least she’s eating etc but I just can’t believe a 1 year old was given crisps in the first place, and enough to develop a taste for them. There is no accountability for it. I’m not saying my children eat perfect diets and I’m sorry if saying children not recognising a mango was shocking to me but it was. The way some of the children reacted to normal fruit and vegetables was incredible. Not knowing what a pear was, not wanting to touch a raspberry because it was weird etc. I think both parents working has had a huge impact, and the rise of cheap poor quality food. With reading so many of the children love being listened to. I volunteer to listen and they literally bloom when reading and so many say their parents never bother. Part of that could be tiredness/no time but a bigger concern to me is not valuing reading or seeing the benefit in it so not prioritising it. If they see it as a chore, children pick up on it.

My kids were all potty trained at age 2 but one of them took significantly longer than the others. It was awful. For some reason (bloody stubbornness!) she wasn't getting it, until one day it just clicked. But she was my first and I'd built myself up to it only taking three days (thanks Oh Crap 🙄), so I was stressed about it taking "too long."

My point is that if there had been a potty training service to go to for advice, I would absolutely have used it, and that definitely doesn't indicate that I couldn't be bothered as a parent or that I thought it was anyone else's job, just that I could have used some help (or just a firm older mum telling me to chill out!).

I would like to add to my previous comment. My children were nineties babies and most of us used disposable nappies. The advice then was that girls were ready for toilet training around their second birthday and boys around 2 1/2. They had to be toilet trained by the time they went to playgroup or nursery. My oldest child is autistic, which was not very well known in the mid-nineties and I was horrified that it took him so long to train but he was dry day and night just before his third birthday. The other two were more or less trained as expected. My daughter was ready before she was two but we had a long haul trip to visit family on the other side of the world at that time so waited until just after her second birthday. My point is that it is not the nappies but laziness in not getting on with this very important life skill.

This topic always gets me a bit puzzled. I live outside the UK and children start compulsory schooling at 3 (or before as the year is based on calendar year so as long as you turn three before December you start in September). It is very very unusual for children to not be toilet trained by this age. Schools are supposed to take children even if they are not toilet trained but in practice they will often refuse them and there seems to be a social shame motivator to have your child not ready for school. It does indicate that there is not a physiological reason children can’t be ready. 2 parent working families are also common here so it’s not time either.

YABU because a lot of these new parents weren't taught these lessons themselves. So this is the next generation of kids from parents who simply have never been taught how to parent.

Are children with SEN an exception?

I can accept it maybe isn't more common than not, but exception seems too strong a term these days.

But surely trying to identify the reasons could help them to not be crap parents? Just saying they’re crap doesn’t do anything. It’s not about trying to justify crap parenting it’s about trying to figure out what’s going on.

Were the conservatives "big state" for the formative years of these parents?

Eh?

Most of these things were taught in school when my parents were pupils. They're in their 80s.

The issue with that though is that disabilities aren't always apparent when children are starting school at just 4. Some children won't be diagnosed until years later and the continence team often aren't very interested in seeing a child until they are at least 7.

Of course it's beyond frustrating when parents don't potty train children who are able to by the time they start school but we do have to be careful that attempting to punish and shame those parents doesn't trickle down to disabled children.

Banning disposable nappies for example. Would a child need a diagnosis? How would parents of disabled children get disposable nappies? Would they become more expensive? I can't see a way that it wouldn't negatively affect families of disabled children.

A bit hypocritical to say other parents delaying potty training is purely down to laziness when you admit to doing this yourself to help with your family holiday.

I think poverty can be an issue if the parent is stressed or isolated without support. No two people are the same whether rich or poor.

This nails it. Shame serves a very useful purpose in society, and painting shame as being inherently negative or unwarranted is not good for us as a society. Shame, when wielded appropriately and in moderation, is a very beneficial thing.

I also agree with pp that a big part of the problem appears to be people sticking their children in front of screens, and also being on screens constantly themselves. I have relatives in education and they say (aside from lack of toilet training, and lack of fine motor control, not knowing how to hold a pencil, or use scissors etc) children's oral language skills and ability to answer and expand on questions are dreadful, which is something I've seen reported in the news too.

It isn’t just changing the nappy, though, @JLou08 - the disposable is simply bagged and binned, but the terry nappy needed to go in a bucket of napisan where it soaked until you had a load, then needed to be washed, dried and folded to the right shape to use. And if it was a pooey nappy, the poo had to be scraped off into the loo. And the plastic pants that went over them needed washing too - it was a whole lot more work than disposable nappies.

It's a pity that there can't be something akin to a driving test that people have to pass before they can have children.

It definitely seems like it's getting worse. The news is about the increasing numbers, and I don't remember it being a talking point some years ago. I don't remember any kids at playgroup (showing my age with that word) having nappies or being changed and my mum never had these issues at the playgroup she ran.

If a child does not have a person who dedicate time to potty training, how will it happen? It is the responsibility of parents not schools

Special needs aside. I think it’s disposable nappies alongside many other things. Back in the day when towel nappies and large pins were the only option children were out of nappies much earlier.

I think there's multiple factors and it's not just laziness.

I could have done with some help with potty training. I struggled with my first a lot and it was a bit late as he was 4 (although prior to school) and knowing what I know now I would have approached the whole thing differently and earlier. I had no clue. Due to COVID there wasn't much village for advice. And some of the advice useless or didn't work. He hated reward charts for example.

My DS also has sensory issues which definitely played a part in making it harder.

His sibling was much much easier because she got the idea and cooperated. And I sometimes think all the smug people who say well potty training worked easily for me probably had children more like my DD.

So I probably didn't get it quite right but tried my best. I'm sure a lot of parents are trying their best.

I agree disposable nappies don't help because they are comfortable and children feel dry - so they don't have to stop playing etc to pee.

I'm so happy that my children are finally out of nappies.

Toothbrushing at nursery has happened for ages in Scotland.