To think the government need to make disruptive pupil behaviour the parents' problem not the school's?

[GoodChocolate]

Low level and more serious disruptive behaviour is having a serious impact on children's education and teachers' health and wellbeing.
I propose a very, very consistent system of mini -exclusions whereby for every instance of low level disruptive behaviour (eg talking when they are not supposed to be talking )
The following procedure applies

1)the child has 3 chances a day.one initial warning One final warning and on the third occasion the child is sent to the office and the parents sre summoned.
2) The parent must be at the school within 60 minutes of the call
3) From the time the child leaves the school they are not allowed back until both
a) a full 24 (not counting weekends) has elapsed.
AND
b) the parent has completed an hour long very interactive virtual parenting course.Tbis happens every time the child receives a mini exclusion

If the parent fails to present themselves at tge school within the 60minutes this is treated as child abandonment and an escalating series of fines imposed, followed eventually by prosecution
If the course isnt done in time for the child go return to school after the 24 hour mini exclusion, then this is treated as unauthorised absence.
In cases of hitting ,swearing. Spitting etc no chances are given.
The parents and their employers are going to getboretty sick of this pretty quickly and sort their kids out.

I’m not the person you’re quoting but I had 3 with a man who shagged someone else and then became unpleasant because he was getting sex and validation elsewhere.

I didn’t know he was going to do that when I had the kids.

i suppose it’s my fault now that he cheated?

It's a vicious circle though. Personally, I think it had been more to do with the implementation of one size fits all comprehensives, an expectation that every child can get 5 GCSEs including maths and english, no or too few specialist schools: grammar, technical, sen and PRUs, left wing wokery in schools, the inability to permanently exclude, etc. None of that has arisen from poor parenting, it has all arisen through legislation and Local Authority education management.

As fsr as I am concerned no teacher has any right to complain about the impact of covid, bearing in mind the resistance to reopening the schools.

OP clearly has a 'thing' about punishment.

For many of these children school is the only place where they would be taught how to behave. I think it is school's responsibility to instil the basics. Yes, of course I think its teachers' job to teach that.

The parents would lose their jobs if they had to keep leaving because their child had disrupted a lesson. Do you think that would do much for the poverty cycle?

OP thinks it would be just fine because then the parent would have no reason not to be at school within 60 minutes of a phone call. Presumably it’s easy to get there fast when you only need to crawl out of your sleeping bag on the street and not worry about locking up a house. Quite how she thinks that will happen when you can’t afford to keep a car either… 🤷🏻‍♀️

The problem with your idea is that the majority of the problem kids have parents that dont give a shit, they wont pay fines and you can't really go around sending parents to prison for naughty kids the jails are already full and there would be a foster care crisis lol

What makes you think the parents don’t support the school rules? What do you want them to do? Come & sit in the classroom?

Put the money back into SEN funding so if necessary these kids can be taken out of the classroom & taught away from the main class.

I think this is really important to remember when we are humouring people like OP by discussing this stuff

'For many of these children school is the only place where they would be taught how to behave. I think it is school's responsibility to instil the basics. Yes, of course I think its teachers' job to teach that.'

This is unbelievable. No wonder we're in the shit with attitudes like this. Out of interest - what exactly do you think the parents' job is?

You and other posters live in a fantasy world. You can bang on all you like about parents roles but it’s obvious you can’t MAKE anyone do what you see as parenting. You just have to accept you can’t control everyone else. It’s so childish to post things like this that don’t acknowledge that.

Well perhaps the problem then is that many people (according to you if it's me and others on here that live 'in a fantasy world') - simply don't expect parents to do any parenting. And in fact expect the schools to do parenting and teaching. As I said - no wonder we are in the shit.

That’s not the problem. The problem is humans are different and also a product of their environment.

they are not controlled, by you or anyone else. That is a false expectation that frustrates you, but it won’t make it any more likely.

Your model makes two main assumptions

1. Parents do not care and do not teach their children to behave.
2. Fixed-term exclusions would improve behaviour.

In our experience (both ds's received multiple exclusions) that neither of these assumptions is true. Infact for the latter assumption our observation was the contrary that behaviour deteriorated after exclusions.

Probably just the conception part…

No. Parents are parents. That is their job. If some aren't doing their job because inexplicably they think it is someone else's responsibility - we all suffer. And that is what is happening.

Yes indeed. That’s called society

Yes a society in which so many parents just aren't doing their job.

Yes.
do you realise you’re not getting any further on with this?

That’s the point. You can’t control it. What you think doesn’t matter.

Ha ha ok. Down tool everyone.

I think the point is, your tools are doing fuck all.

😂Tetchy

I know exactly what parents job is, but what if, for some reason, they are lacking? What is your proposal for these children? Throw them out, or let them at least have some chance being provided by the school?

Its an argument similar to free school breakfasts. Yes, of course parents should give their children breakfast, and 99% of parent do (for example). But what about the ones that are not getting it, for whatever reason? Let them starve?

They don’t have an answer for this. They just want to stamp their feet and yell “do your job” and it be done

The poster above, a teacher said that at least 70% of her pupils lacked basic manners/ taking turns etc. And that she most of her time dealing with unruly pupils. So it looks like at least 70% of parents aren't doing their job. Using extremes doesn't help anyone. Teaching manners and taking turns, is free. And on top of that - it's easy to teach.