Did you ever wonder about your husband after the Gisele Pelicot case?

[Seymorbutts]

I’m a lesbian (thank god!) so I’ve got no skin in this game but I read something on here earlier about the sheer number of seemingly ordinary men who participated in the rape of Gisele Pelicot. I’m assuming their own wives had no idea either. It’s not only horrific but got me wondering are most men actually like this, walking around pretending to be normal but actually have these sick fantasies they’re just waiting for the opportunity to act out? And that got me wondering if you’re married to a man, did the Gisele Pelicot case ever lead you to suspect your own husband could have ever done anything like this, if not to you, to another woman? If so, how did you cope with it?

This is all about entitlement and viewing you as theirs. If they had woken to find you sticking something in one of their orifices just bc you were in a relationship I’m sure they’d have gone beserk.

no

It’s terrifying to think that this may be pretty accurate. Would you include your husband (if you have one) in these men? I totally understand that no woman would ever want to think her own husband could be capable of that, otherwise they wouldn’t be married to him. If someone asked me if I thought my BIL, dad, or other men I’m close to could do something like that my immediate response would also be no way. To imagine it I’d have to assume they had a completely separate and secret side that they never ever showed to anyone else and never showed through in their personality (or at least the sides of it that I see). But maybe the wives of the Gisele Pelicot men also thought they’d never be capable of what they did. Assumingly they did, because most women wouldn’t stay in a marriage if they thought their husband was a rapist

That’s a very poor comparison.

A women is raped every two minutes in England and Wales, there’s a sexual assault every 30 seconds.

If you ask men to self report sexual aggression (rape, assault, coercion, harassment) it’s about 1 in 20.

About 1% of murders are poisonings.

No, I've never ever wondered that about my DH. A certain ex boyfriend from decades ago springs to mind who I really wouldn't be surprised.

I try not to go too far down this thought avenue because the law of averages suggests that we all most likely know, or have known, men in our everyday lives who have at some stage viewed child abuse online, or sexually assaulted women, or generally done something absolutely abhorrent and illegal. They just have never been found out. It makes me feel a bit nauseous.

Also, if we look at the current Cornell case, the prevalence of gang rape in US fraternity culture, the use of sexual hazing rituals in elite male clubs more generally (think Cameron & the pig-head in the Bullingdon club, Cambridge drinking societies, etc), it’s clear that group participation in sexual humiliation and violence is a time honoured tradition of solidifying male power: once they’ve all got something on one another, they are bound to have one another’s backs.

This is what makes it culturally / socially / psychologically difficult for a member of these groups not to participate, let alone to speak out against abuse. He’ll end up with the entire fraternity doing to him some version of what they do to women. And if he says nothing, his reward is belonging and status.

The world is run by these people. Is it any wonder things are the way they are?

All that brainspace they won’t use for the ‘mental load’ is full of their overriding personal obsessions

You've really hit the nail on the head here. Women are used to mentally storing dozens of checklists and calendars etc on a daily basis but from what I’ve read and witnessed men just don’t - so what are they filling their heads with? Thank you for putting this argument forward.

Same. I've also been woken up by two ex partners having sex with me. I've also been anally raped by an ex who apparently got "carried away" during regular intercourse.

I always had a close relationship my Mum, and when I confided in her about these incidents she told me that my Father had done both of these things to her in the past. One of the incidents resulted in a unwanted pregnancy and termination.

I'd never put anything past a man tbh. I'm in early 40s now, divorced and single. I don't plan on being in a relationship again, and I can't see myself having a sexual relationship again either, which makes me sad. I just don't trust men anymore.

No because my husband isn’t a c*nt! Do you ever worry your female partner might do the same? 🙄

@escapegoats I agree in my 20s and 30s far too many married losers hit on me. These are ‘nice men’ who go home to wives and kids.

This research by Minwalla is fascinating. I do think many men have a secret sexual basement. This should be discussed far more.

https://minwallamodel.com/article/ten-steps-to-building-a-secret-sexual-basement/

Ms Pelicot didn't think her husband was a cunt either. Or she would have left him.

But the question was about do we suspect out husbands because of one case the answer is no because there are millions of different crimes my husband wouldnt be capable of all of them, nor me

Women still commit crime as hard as mn doesnt want to believe does our husbands suspect us?

I’ve never had cause to wonder about my husband but I do know someone who was being drugged and raped by a boyfriend. It’s terrifying.

It’s never crossed my mind. Surely any man capable of something like that must be in the minority.

This. I think if children were encouraged to see each other as equals from an early age then this may go a long way to prevent men from dehumanising women in order to satisfy their fucked up sexual desires later in life

No because the statistics don’t support it. If there were thousands of rape cases perpetrated by women up in court every week then yeah, I might worry but that’s just not the case is it? These “but women rape too” arguments just don’t work when 98% of rapists are men

If they felt sure they'd never be found out? Unfortunately, I'm not sure that's true.

I also think we can’t even begin to imagine how much of men’s inner lives and energies are dedicated to the gratification of their own pleasures and interests. All that brainspace they won’t use for the ‘mental load’ is full of their overriding personal obsessions - and we’re lucky if it’s cycling and golf rather than, say, necrophilia.

Very good point.

It's horrifying to consider how many men didn't participate in the raping of GP BUT were invited to AND DIDNT REPORT IT TO THE POLICE

Your boyfriend, husband, friend, son........
Most I believe would participate if they thought they'd get away with it.

Yes, that was also horrifying, and goes to @WhatTheHellsGoingOn 's point about men's priority is to protect other men.

This seems quite accurate to me. Rape and rape culture is an integral element of that kind of collective masculinity which is all about power and dominance. This is why these kinds of groups also rape other men as well as women.

I am not sure about another poster's assertion though that most men would rape an unconscious woman if they wouldnt be found out. I actually think there are plenty of men who wouldn't and whose sexualitu is not formed around dominance and objectification. But as you say the men like that within the groups are bound by their own complicity. And while there are lots of men who don't participate in those cultures of masculinity, few of them actively challenge them, I think they tend to opt themselves out instead.

So the issue is not that most men would to my mind, it's that men don't challenge each other. Ever. Either because they are complicit or because they've rejected the performance and therefore been rejected.

Interesting thread with some insightful comments, especially the one about initiation rituals. I did my best to break up such societies in my student union many years ago, I bet they're still going though.

And plenty of not my Nigel, #notallmen too.

For me, my ex bf was super charming, so could have talked his way into and out of anything, and he knew it.

I don’t believe DH would violate my body, and certainly don’t think he would encourage others to do so. However, my father did something totally out of character 20 years ago, and I’ve not seen or spoken to him since. For this reason I don’t trust any man 100% not to let me down or turn my life on its head.

I also work closely with the safeguarding team in a very nice, very normal area. The amount of children living in less than ideal households, with terrible male role models in their lives is truly shocking.

Aside from the husband's behaviour, the two most shocking things are

• in a small-ish town, dozens of men took part, and probably many hundreds knew what was going on
• of those who took part, they probably felt it was okay, because a man told them it was okay

All in all, anyone who knew about it either thought it was okay just as long as they didn't participate, or it was okay to participate because a man assured them it was fine, i.e. a woman isn't a real human being and shouldn't be treated as one. That's how most men feel about women.

Like PP said, my husband is far from perfect, but I completely trust him not to be a sex offender. However, if I ever found myself to be single again, I would definitely not date again, as my trust in other men has gone as I've got older.