AIBU to question school using paid football club as punishment?

[Confusedschulmum]

I’d genuinely like other parents’ opinions on this because I’m trying to work out whether I’m being unreasonable.
My son is in Year 4 at a state primary school. He was disrespectful towards a teacher after he was trying to explain he didn’t do something and she didn’t want to listen.

I completely agree that there should be consequences for that. I’m not supporting him and he will also be punished at home .The school has told him he will lose his break, which I have absolutely no problem with at all tomorrow

However, he also attends a one-hour football club after school. I pay separately for this, and although it is organised through the school, it is run by an external provider.
Today, without informing us beforehand, the headteacher made him miss the first 15 minutes AND the last 15 minutes of the football session as an additional punishment and made him stand alone somewhere so he didn’t participate . No one was with him
.
My son was apparently told that I would be refunded,(I suspect as a brag to him ) although nothing was mentioned to us when he was collected. He was also told that if he does this again or repeats it , his place at the football club could be taken away and given to another child.

The refund isn’t really the issue for me. I don’t want the refund. I fully support the school disciplining him for poor behaviour and I’m not trying to excuse what he did.
What I’m uncomfortable with is a paid extracurricular activity, outside normal school hours and run by an external provider, being used as part of his punishment particularly when he is already receiving a school time consequence.

We’ve also had children at this school for around nine years and, as far as I’m aware, punishments have always taken place during school hours. I’ve never previously heard of them doing an after-school detention or using a paid club in this way.

I’m going to ask the headteacher for clarification, as obviously I’m hearing this from a 9 year-old and there may be more to it.

But before I do, I’d genuinely like other people’s opinions. Would you consider this a reasonable consequence, or would you also question the school using a separately paid-for after-school activity as punishment?

thank you

Sounds OTT on the face of things and i think you are wise to ask for clarification.
The punitive measures around paid extra curricular activity outside of the school day seems unreasonable for something that happened in school.
What did your son say exactly that was disrespectful when he was trying to explain himself ?

OP, I think you know your son can be reprimanded for behaviour in school, during school time.

But this was completely unacceptable.
Involving himself in your son's paid after school activity is completely unacceptable.

I would be emailing clarification to both the HT and the activity provider.

Where does it say in the terms and conditions of the activity that it can be withdrawn at whim, without informing the parent, by the school?
AND that your child, for whom they are responsible during the activity, will be left unsupervised.
Does their insurance cover this?
Does the schools insurance cover this?

Get it all down in an email to both and request clarification.

I strongly support schools disciplining rude children, but I certainly don't in this case where the HT has lost the run of themselves thinking they get to discipline your child after school hours WITHOUT informing you.

Missing clubs is not part of it of the policy. His behaviour is not bad. First time being reported to me in this new school year and you will think this kind of punishment would be given out after several escalations

he threw the tennis racket away when the teacher mtold him To drop it after he explained to the teacher that he didn’t intentionally aim to hit the tennis ball in the other child face and the child also confirmed it .

Teacher was telling him to say sorry as he thinks he did. It intentionally and he said he had said sorry but the boy didn’t look hurt and ( the boy also confirmed this and he wasn’t hurt ). He felt teacher wasn’t listening to him trying to explain it wasn’t intentional and she told him to drop the racket and he just threw it down rudely .

So I’m happy he is being called out for it because I also won’t tolerate disrespect regardless but OTT punishment of making him miss football club when he is still going to be punished the next day is what I was trying to understand and to me is a form of bullying

my DD went there so I have been part of that community for 7/8 years and never have they given after school detention .

First time being reported to me . Maybe several don’t talk in class like most other kids but first time this term

We’ve done this once or twice for two reasons :

1. the incident was extremely serious (racist language against a teacher) AND
2. Tbh, the club was the only thing the kid actually cared about.

Even then, it was missing the first 10 minutes.

Again, sometimes (very rarely)children will be in “isolation “ for a day, so working outside their class , but it involves severe incidents spitting, fighting, using racist/disablist language etc.

ETA for the incident you described , tbf a sorry would’ve been enough. If any misunderstanding and I thought the worst possible scenario the consequences would’ve been you sit on the side now as you’ve shown you can’t be safe using the equipment and missing play next day as a consequence for throwing the racquet, plus an apology to the teacher. It seems like a massive escalation to me. Could it be that it seemed like he threw the racquet AT the teacher? As that would add to the seriousness of the incident and would justify SOME escalation of consequences.

I agree with most/all of the others. It’s totally inappropriate and unacceptable. I’d speak to the Head about it. He is already had consequences and that should be the end of it. Just make sure it doesn’t happen again.

It would only ever be appropriate for a child to miss some of the football, if they’d done something wrong at football.

I'd be furious over this. Who the fuck is the HT to dictate what your child does after school? Way out of his jurisdiction and totally unjust if your son has already received a punishment both at school and one waiting at home. It's none of the HT's business to be interfering in an out of school time activity, he's overstepped here and he needs to know it.

@Confusedschulmum

No reason for multiple punishments (no break, 30 minutes less football, at home).

Safeguarding protocols breached when the parents had entrusted the child into the care of the external agency, child was removed from their care and then left unattended in the school building out of hours.

No communication to the parents either before or after the instance of football exclusion from either the instructor or the school.

School has no authority to offer refund for privately arranged activity where the external organisation collects the money directly from the parents.

Really poor for such a minor infringement.

Outside school hours activity is not something they can withhold, surely? I’d be mighty pissed off without them consulting me prior. Talk to them and get their version and make it very clear that they are not to do this again.

All of the people saying this is OTT are one of the reasons behaviour in school is so poor. You say that the teacher "didn't want to listen" but probably because she was sick of arguing with entitled 8 year olds that don't like being told no. Being disrespectful to adults in school is such an issue - maybe you don't think it's a big deal, but if 30 children decide to argue/not listen then it is a real problem.
If he can't behave appropriately in the classroom, then he shouldn't be allowed to participate in a group sport where you have to be respectful and listen.
The issue here is that none of this was communicated to you and he certainly shouldn't have been left alone (I would check this). The head teacher is probably trying tocrack down on low level, disrespectful behaviours that make teaching so difficult.

Teachers pull the disrespect card when a child is trying to explain something. It boils my blood the way some teachers seem to think only their opinion matters even when they're in the wrong.No apology given but they still want the child to apologise.

This is simple - your child should only have received punishment during school hours. To remove him from a paid after school club is wrong, regardless of whether the leader is a former member of staff. At my school children have only been removed from after school clubs if the club leader has made the decision - and that would mean at a future time, not during the session where the decision was made, so that parents would know in advance, and presumably were given a refund. On the very rare occasion, with extremely difficult behaviour DURING the club, senior staff have phoned parents to collect early or kept them away from the rest of the children at the club.

When does the punishment stop?
Whats the point in behaving if hes going to be punished anyway?

He's been threatened with being kick out of football. When it has nothing to do with football?

I work in a school and this was OTT.