AIBU to question school using paid football club as punishment?

[Confusedschulmum]

I’d genuinely like other parents’ opinions on this because I’m trying to work out whether I’m being unreasonable.
My son is in Year 4 at a state primary school. He was disrespectful towards a teacher after he was trying to explain he didn’t do something and she didn’t want to listen.

I completely agree that there should be consequences for that. I’m not supporting him and he will also be punished at home .The school has told him he will lose his break, which I have absolutely no problem with at all tomorrow

However, he also attends a one-hour football club after school. I pay separately for this, and although it is organised through the school, it is run by an external provider.
Today, without informing us beforehand, the headteacher made him miss the first 15 minutes AND the last 15 minutes of the football session as an additional punishment and made him stand alone somewhere so he didn’t participate . No one was with him
.
My son was apparently told that I would be refunded,(I suspect as a brag to him ) although nothing was mentioned to us when he was collected. He was also told that if he does this again or repeats it , his place at the football club could be taken away and given to another child.

The refund isn’t really the issue for me. I don’t want the refund. I fully support the school disciplining him for poor behaviour and I’m not trying to excuse what he did.
What I’m uncomfortable with is a paid extracurricular activity, outside normal school hours and run by an external provider, being used as part of his punishment particularly when he is already receiving a school time consequence.

We’ve also had children at this school for around nine years and, as far as I’m aware, punishments have always taken place during school hours. I’ve never previously heard of them doing an after-school detention or using a paid club in this way.

I’m going to ask the headteacher for clarification, as obviously I’m hearing this from a 9 year-old and there may be more to it.

But before I do, I’d genuinely like other people’s opinions. Would you consider this a reasonable consequence, or would you also question the school using a separately paid-for after-school activity as punishment?

thank you

Nothing like that . ….

he was specifically by older was as a result of the incident that happened in school earlier .

he is not unruly and was not being naughty again

Focus on your child’s shit behavior rather than whether you are getting your money’s worth.

Thanks everyone. My DH will speak to the HT this morning as he is avoiding me doing it because he knows I could challenge and use emotions 🫣 (which I won’t )so I will wait to hear

and like I mentioned the HT probably knew he was wrong that’s why he was telling my DS that he would refund me ( which was wrong ) and also trying to explain himself to my DH when he picked him up but my DH didn’t really understand why the emphasis on the punishment during football club after school. He thought it was during school hours

I’m not sure that it’s the paid thing that’s the issue as much as that it’s OTT to add on another punishment.

Sounds a bit spiteful to me too.

I think extra curricular activities with external providers should be separate from the school discipline process.

The only exception I think would be severe bad behaviour where the consequence was that the child was not allowed in the area - as an extreme example a child who had deliberately caused a lot of damage to the sports hall/equipment during school hours, and the school saying “well now they aren’t allowed to use this at all, or without school staff being present”

Make sure you get the refund!

I think it's fair as long as you are refunded for the missed part of the session.

Ahh. You can see where your son gets his disrespectful behavior from ehh? Did he tell the teacher that?

You’ve said more than once that you think it’s unfair for punishment to happen outside school hours. That’s not what I said. It’s the money to an external provider that would make the difference to me. If it weren’t for that, any hours your child is on school premises would be fair game for punishment IMO.

I hope your DH is offered a refund out of principle, but it should come out of school funds because it’s not the sports coach’s fault and he probably still had to supervise. Schools definitely have better uses for their money than this.

Ahhh here we go. It’s all coming clear now 🤣🤣🤣 how funny. Sentence doesn’t even make much sense. Exclamation marks don’t go in the middle of a sentence. Just a potty mouthed rant. Bad tempered family - nice. I guess each school has one.

I used to use the external clubs to cover childcare needs. So the HT saying theyd take his place off him in this situation just wouldnt fly here im afraid 🤣

....yeah I can see why your dh is talking to the head instead of you!

I do think they were being unreasonable though. Mainly because of the afterschool element - what would they have done if he didnt do football, followed him to scouts or swimming and tried to enforce school rules there? But also because making him miss the start AND end of the football is unnecessarily cruel. It would make more sense to make him miss the first half hour rather than feel like his punishment is never ending and repeatedly singling him out from his peers.

I'd also insist on the refund mainly because it will be an absolute ball ache to them to sort (as I highly doubt the provider will agree to it as it wasnt him who pulled your ds out, so the head will have to find a way to take it out of the school accounts or even pay it themselves, which will hopefully make them realise what a stupid thing they did).

I was with you until this comment.
Ir seems you cannot comment like a reasonable and sensible person either.

Wow. You're calling people that on the internet? Is that the person you choose to be?

I agreed with your post, but I think there might be something to the idea that you might be modelling awful behaviour. I can also see why your DH doesn't want you speaking to the head.

You wouldn’t have much choice if external providers had an agreement with the school as a condition of their permission to operate.

It matters. The school has no right to prevent his attending a club paid for and organised externally to the school. The fact it happens on school grounds is immaterial. I would raise bloody hell about this myself. Not only is he being forced to miss partial sessions but also his break during school hours? If it was so serious, why did they not call you?

Follow the official complaints procedure and include the governors.

Yea thanks but i was talking about my experience. Which was the external clubs had nothing to do with the school apart from use their premises. Used lots of the clubs and there was never anything in their terms about the school having any say whatsoever in who could attend.

I think you should pursue the refund - not because of needing the money but the school needs to take the consequences for the over-reach in denying DS something that you have paid for. It will need to come out of the school's (very strained) budget because certainly the activity provider shouldn't take the hit. There should be consequences for bad behaviour but anything outside of core school hours should only be with parental permission and should not have a financial impact on the parent. You need to be assertive here on principle because they need to have robust policies that are fair to everyone.

Whilst I don't applaud the OP's language at all, it's crystal clear that you went out of your way to goad her. I wonder why you felt the need to do that?

Generally, and the issue with the external provider notwithstanding, it is rarely a good idea to layer punishments. His misdemeanour was relatively minor, and he was told what his punishment was to be. To then layer on an additional punishment for the same misdemeanour looks like the teacher is reacting emotionally. Not a good look and I would be objecting too.

I think this sounds really unfair. It also sounds like the punishment (missing break) was decided then an additional punishment heaped on top (twice as he missed the start and the end of football). Plus the shaming nature of having to stand by himself. I have a 14 yo ds in secondary and have seen my fair share of punishments, detentions etc (not always ds but his peers over the years) but this is way over the top imo. I hope your dh gets somewhere with the head and not just a refund which isn’t really the point.

Exactly! A child challenging an adult is not automatically disrespectful, despite many school staff trying to instill in them otherwise.

Wow I don’t understand a lot of people .

Someone came on and called my child behaviour SHIT and I replied and I’m the VILLAIN????
The poster doesn’t take any fault for this !!!

this is going to upset me more than the original issue so thanks a lot for your help I’m out

I think the ds was appallingly rude to the teacher due to his mother modelling that behaviour to him and the school are coming down hard as a result.

Thank you .i have not attacked anyone that said he should be punished so how am i the villain? She called my child’s behaviour shit not knowing anything whatsoever