AIBU to question school using paid football club as punishment?

[Confusedschulmum]

I’d genuinely like other parents’ opinions on this because I’m trying to work out whether I’m being unreasonable.
My son is in Year 4 at a state primary school. He was disrespectful towards a teacher after he was trying to explain he didn’t do something and she didn’t want to listen.

I completely agree that there should be consequences for that. I’m not supporting him and he will also be punished at home .The school has told him he will lose his break, which I have absolutely no problem with at all tomorrow

However, he also attends a one-hour football club after school. I pay separately for this, and although it is organised through the school, it is run by an external provider.
Today, without informing us beforehand, the headteacher made him miss the first 15 minutes AND the last 15 minutes of the football session as an additional punishment and made him stand alone somewhere so he didn’t participate . No one was with him
.
My son was apparently told that I would be refunded,(I suspect as a brag to him ) although nothing was mentioned to us when he was collected. He was also told that if he does this again or repeats it , his place at the football club could be taken away and given to another child.

The refund isn’t really the issue for me. I don’t want the refund. I fully support the school disciplining him for poor behaviour and I’m not trying to excuse what he did.
What I’m uncomfortable with is a paid extracurricular activity, outside normal school hours and run by an external provider, being used as part of his punishment particularly when he is already receiving a school time consequence.

We’ve also had children at this school for around nine years and, as far as I’m aware, punishments have always taken place during school hours. I’ve never previously heard of them doing an after-school detention or using a paid club in this way.

I’m going to ask the headteacher for clarification, as obviously I’m hearing this from a 9 year-old and there may be more to it.

But before I do, I’d genuinely like other people’s opinions. Would you consider this a reasonable consequence, or would you also question the school using a separately paid-for after-school activity as punishment?

thank you

You need the school behaviour policy to compare what the school leaders and governors have agreed with their actions in your DS’s case.

Does this policy match the actions the school have taken?

If not, the school complaints policy will guide you through what to do next, usually starting with a conversation and resolution from a staff member (through the stages of a formal complaint if this is not satisfactorily resolved).

So the original poster that called my child’s behaviour shit first is not to blame ? ?

Just a little UPDATE for those who have been kind enough to comment and condone, my DH approached him and he said when he mentioned it , the HT was a bit taken aback as my DH raised it this morning and you could see the look on his face as he had probably reflected on it (according to DH)

his excuse was the club has a waiting list and he was trying to pass a message that if he disrespects again , he would lose his place so wanted to punish him by showing him what he will be missing

I still think it was TOO personal but as he has apologised to my DH this morning, I would let it go .

It is the same as school deciding a child cant go to brownies at 6pm that evening in a hall elsewhere as a punishment absolutely not acceptable. It is an external club hiring the school premises.

I exepct HT will not apologise or admit this is wrong, but as long as agreed wont happen again I would take that as a win.

Op tbf some people are quite simplistic when it comes to things like this, they cant understand how it's possible to be concerned with more than one issue at a time, hence the focus on your DC rather than the school type comments.

Either that or theyre goading - so you react as they want, then they can poke more, then its the old "i see where your DS gets it from"

Just ignore.

It’s quite unfair your child is behaving poorly at school and disrupting other children’s learning / taking teachers time away from teaching.

I agree with your general sentiment. But I don’t see why her comment would change your general opinion of schools using externally provided clubs as part of their punishment.

Its a punishment. Your child wasnt harmed and hopefully he learnt a lesson. Move on and hope it hit home enough he doesnt do it again.

Teachers have enough trouble with children who's parents dont give a toss. Its almost as bad with parents who do give a toss but then make their lives difficult.

Was it over the top. Maybe
Was your child harmed - Nope
Will he learn from it - Hopefully

Move on

'He was disrespectful towards a teacher after he was trying to explain he didn’t do something and she didn’t want to listen.'

Well, before we even get to the football club which is absolutely wrong in every way; what was this thing that he said he did not do? Why didn't the teacher listen to him? Sounds as though she pushed him and he snapped.

I would need to get to the bottom of this and know exactly why the teacher refused to listen to my son when he was clearly telling her that he didn't do this thing.

To be honest, this all gives me a very bad feeling about this teacher.

Put your child first and foremost and support them 100%.

Surely even the waiting list is nothing to do with the school though. My DD does two after school clubs (that are at the school and directly after it).
One is free and run by the school - the school can do what they want there.
One is an external provider, who I book directly with, and pay directly. If my child started misbehaving, there is every chance I would remove her from this. But I wouldn’t expect the school to have a say over it anymore than I’d expect them to have a say over her Saturday morning sports club.

That would worry me more than missing thd football practice. If he's usually well behaved and shouldn't have been blamed for this incident then I would take it further. If not I wouid let it go.

Ahhh, the pile on.

The OP explained that her son was trying the tell the teacher that he did not do the thing the teacher was accusing him of!

Anyway, OP. I am glad it's all resolved.

Also op, Mumsnetters children are always impeccably behaved, never a blip. And an op posting about one incident must mean their DC is feral and a nightmare all the time.

If the school manage the waiting list, then it clearly come under the auspices of the schoo not an external provider.
The HT just used weasel words because he justceanted your dh to go away and didn't want to waste any more of his time on this incident.

It’s not your DH that the HT should be apologising to surely ? It should be to your DS.

He needs to apologise to your son. He has no right to do that and was on a power trip. It's behaviour like his that makes kids NOT respect authority. Sounds like the teacher was already not giving him chance to talk in the first place. Now he's had three punishments and threatened with a 4th for abit of attitude.

Does the headteacher even have the power to remove your son from a football club he doesn't run and that you pay for?

I would email the school so that you have a paper trail and ask how the behaviour policy was followed. I'd also ask how your son was supervised. If the HT is acting in anger and not following the behaviour policy or safeguarding children this needs to be highlighted.

Yep! I always made sure I supported the school and teachers....until we experienced some absolute arseholes of teachers....bullies, misogynistic, arrogant and just plain mean.
So then I decided to listen to my children 1st and have their backs.
There are shit teachers like everywhere and they have this ridiculous power over our children.
Sounds like you are right. Stand up for your boy.

Ask a series of questions in writing, including about the refund.

The head has got this wrong by the sounds of it.

This makes it worse, I would not let this go.

I would ask where in the school's behaviour management policy it states that the head will interfere in after school provision run by external providers.

Put your concerns in writing.

It all depends on the relationship between the school and the football provider.

If the provider is purely independent - it just so happens they run the club at the school- they hire the school premises, they offer places to children not at the school, and they run completely independently of the school, then no, it's not the headteachers place to stop your child going, any more than it would be stopping him going to swimming lessons at the local leisure centre after school.

However, if the provider is running the club at the request of the school (even if you pay the provider directly), then that's a bit different, and would seem reasonable that the head teacher could get involved - I'm not saying the way he went about it is fair, but he perhaps does have the right to get involved.

I suspect it's the second, as you say it's organised through the school. Either way though, if this is a one off, I'd just let it go - hopefully your child has learned something from this.

I think chasing this up with email wouldn't be a bad thing.
School should refund your money 💰

I almost think the HT is verging on bullying, over stepping the mark.

Hope your wee boy is OK, mine would be gutted to miss his football. Highlight of the week.

OP, I have a child the same age as yours who can be rude or talk out of turn sometimes and occasionally oversteps boundaries.

His school has never had to 'come down hard' on him with multiple punishments because it's a well run school with sensible, experienced teachers. He's had the very occasional talking to or mild sanction (like missing five minutes of break), but generally his teachers don't need to do more than raise an eyebrow at the kids or speak to them sternly for them to fall in line. Including my DS, who (I suspect like yours) isn't disruptive but can be a bit cheeky sometimes. I support the school entirely in their approach, because it is calm and child focused. Children are treated with respect and although disciplinary consequences are sometimes necessary, I've never heard of a child being punished in anger or vindictiveness or left isolated, which is what this sounds like. I can't see many circumstances in which standing alone for 30 minutes would be an ok punishment for a 9yo as opposed to, for example, having to sit out for a few minutes if being disruptive.

I had some awful teachers growing up, but schools weren't nearly so child-centred then. I remember one small child (around six) being physically dragged out of assembly in front of everyone for whispering. And boys (it always seemed to be boys) being sent to stand with their noses against the wall was common. You used to pass them in the corridor. I can understand having to sit out of an activity as a punishment, but I thought humiliation had thankfully fallen out of fashion as a disciplinary method.