AIBU to question school using paid football club as punishment?

[Confusedschulmum]

I’d genuinely like other parents’ opinions on this because I’m trying to work out whether I’m being unreasonable.
My son is in Year 4 at a state primary school. He was disrespectful towards a teacher after he was trying to explain he didn’t do something and she didn’t want to listen.

I completely agree that there should be consequences for that. I’m not supporting him and he will also be punished at home .The school has told him he will lose his break, which I have absolutely no problem with at all tomorrow

However, he also attends a one-hour football club after school. I pay separately for this, and although it is organised through the school, it is run by an external provider.
Today, without informing us beforehand, the headteacher made him miss the first 15 minutes AND the last 15 minutes of the football session as an additional punishment and made him stand alone somewhere so he didn’t participate . No one was with him
.
My son was apparently told that I would be refunded,(I suspect as a brag to him ) although nothing was mentioned to us when he was collected. He was also told that if he does this again or repeats it , his place at the football club could be taken away and given to another child.

The refund isn’t really the issue for me. I don’t want the refund. I fully support the school disciplining him for poor behaviour and I’m not trying to excuse what he did.
What I’m uncomfortable with is a paid extracurricular activity, outside normal school hours and run by an external provider, being used as part of his punishment particularly when he is already receiving a school time consequence.

We’ve also had children at this school for around nine years and, as far as I’m aware, punishments have always taken place during school hours. I’ve never previously heard of them doing an after-school detention or using a paid club in this way.

I’m going to ask the headteacher for clarification, as obviously I’m hearing this from a 9 year-old and there may be more to it.

But before I do, I’d genuinely like other people’s opinions. Would you consider this a reasonable consequence, or would you also question the school using a separately paid-for after-school activity as punishment?

thank you

Maybe I'm a big softy but I don't think thats appropriate. It seems really OTT to me.

Do you pay via the school or direct to the provider ?

Because that affects the providers profits too.

I would ask for clarification about that as that’s not on. He shouldn’t be punished three times (start, end and break tomorrow) for one thing unless that one thing was so serious it merited a discussion with you.

When I ran our after school group we hired the hall and the HT had no right to be disciplining children in our care. If it’s an outside provider that you’ve paid for it’s not school, regardless of the provider hiring the space.

Paid to the external provider on his website though he was a former teacher of the school ( not sure if that matters )

I feel sad for him like he was cheated

Well if he was left alone somewhere that’s not on for a start.

I am surprised they would do this as it would be a logistical pain for them to communicate it to the external provider , ask the provider to enforce him missing the last 15 minutes, and above all negotiate giving a refund. I do wonder if your son’s version is quite accurate and would suggest checking .

Why wouldn’t the teacher listen to him ? Have you got both sides of the story? Seems a shame if he was trying to explain himself?

Thank you this is exactly how I feel . …😕

If that is true, that is really crazy on their end.

BUT. I would not wind yourself up about it until, as you say, you get the full picture. It sounds so over-the-top that I would be surprised if it was the whole story.

The head sounds spiteful. Was anyone even monitoring your son and ensuring he was safe while he was standing alone? If not then that's also a safeguarding concern.

Extracurricular activities like sports are good for helping children channel their energy and learn to control their behaviour. The head is being completely counterproductive here and very short sighted

This sounds OTT. Child has already been punished by missing his break time. I don’t think it’s appropriate to punish again at a paid football club. Sounds very strange indeed. I wouldn’t be punishing a third time at home

Apparently the head teacher did this just today as the external provider was on site so instructed the coach right after school

the Headteacher was also trying to quickly explain himself ( maybe after realising he may have overreacted ) to my DH but apparently it didn’t click to my DH until I told him that wasn’t on and it is a paid service

so i am thinking of speaking to the HT tomorrow

I totally understand and I’m happy for him to face the consequences if he has been disrespectful.i just think using that paid activity OUTSIDE school hours was unfair

Totally unfair.
The session probably only lasted an hour. So he missed half the session.

The school have no right to get involved with the external provider.

Hes been given a punishment already.

HT has no right involving themselves in non school activities, as in its a paid for service running on school grounds that is all. I would be angry tbf.

Speak to them tomorrow and get proper clarity. Then, if it is as it has seemed so far, ask for the official policy on after school punishments.

If another child did the same as your DS and went to a provider in another building it wouldn’t happen, so it shouldn’t happen at that club.

It’s very easy when the person running the activity is a school staff member, or ex staff member, to let lines blur (I experienced this - both from the school and from myself) It’s very poor practice though and should be nipped in the bud.

although on school property it is NOT part of school or under the direction of the head; in my view it is inappropriate for the head to have any involvement on your son's out of school activities.
NOW if the infraction was related to school property then it may be somewhat appropriate but certainly not for the example you gave.
I have always been supportive of school sanctions but equally I do stand up for inappropriate overreach and my bat shit side might come out over this.

He was disrespectful towards a teacher after he was trying to explain he didn’t do something and she didn’t want to listen.

What was the disrespect? Not looking for exact wording if outing but something in the range.

Was it that he was accused of something he didn't do and she wasn't happy that he defended himself?

Not sure why you support punishment if so tbh.

IME teachers are just as fallible and have the same propensity for good or bad as the rest of the general population, so I would not blindly support something just because they said so.

The additional off the cuff punishment was massive overkill and I'd be wondering if the Head had a personal bee in his bonnet, so I'd be requesting a meeting tomorrow.

Stick up for your son.

Yes.

Also I’d be asking the policy on things working the other way - if he gets in trouble at football will that be carried over into school time.

That's unacceptable. Glad you're questioning it. Stick to your guns, they were entirely out of order.

So as someone who runs a sports club, then there are 2 scenarios

1)the school lets out the facility to the provider and they organise it,and run it under their own auspices. They have their own Insurance and They choose the participants who msy be pupils or may be from other school. The parents book with and enter into a contract directly with the provider

2. it is a school sports club run by an external provider under thr schools insurance. These clubs will be directly after school and the parents do not contract with the provider directly and the school allocates places

It sounds as though the club falls within situation 2 in which case the school can use it as a punishment.

If your child is a little angel and this is the first time he's been disciplined for something like this, then it sounds heavy handed.

However, if this is more akin to a pattern of behaviour, and this is in effect an escalation of punishment, then they are NBU. Actions have consequences, and if previous punishments have not modified his behaviour, then is sounds like they are within their remit to escalate the punishment until they find something your child does care about.

The fact that he missed the last part of the session too suggests that he may not have been following the rules at the session. I do think more clarification is needed.

I don’t think your son was cheated and I think the level of punishment was fair. Parents want their children to attend schools with high expectations for behaviour without realising that things like this are how they achieve it.

However, it being a paid club with an external provider makes a difference, simply because you are paying for the service. IMO it would be fine for the punishment to be enacted after school hours if it were a school led club, because attending those is a privilege that can be taken away if a child chooses to disrespect school staff.

I’d want clarification on where he was during the punishment too. As a parent, you believed the school had handed him off to his afterschool club, he’s nine, and if this didn’t happen, and you weren’t made aware of it, I would also want to know where exactly he was, and who was supervising him.

well your second paragraph is what I’m saying .il not saying it’s unfair for him to be punished