To be glad triple lock going and hope they means test it too

[Randomamsi]

I have a multi millionaire senior relative who receives £1,400 from the state pension each month, in addition to 6k private pension.

He's not means tested and he's received that for 30 years. Yes, he paid into the system but he does not need it!!! He also had free uni, dirt cheap first house back in the 60s and retired aged 59.

Meanwhile the younger generation:

• thousands in student loan debt
• asset poor as can't get on the housing ladder
• means tested for child benefit, tax free childcare etc
• working until late 60s/ 70s

Why do pensioners have it easy while younger ones pay the price?

For vulnerable pensioners at risk of poverty, there should obviously be provision to help them, I'm not suggesting we let people starve. But multimillionaire pensioners or very asset rich pensioners do NOT need the state pension. It's about time things changed.

Thank you for saying this! Such sweeping generalisations are deeply offensive and unhelpful, as well as being inaccurate.

ETA it is of course also possible to be disabled, work and build up a pension pot. Far from paying in nothing...

Wait till the jealous brigade find out that people like me are getting NI credits to enable me to get a full State Pension, all while saving my DH, who employs me to do his bookeeping, over £2k a year in Tax.
I will have had 10 years of credits by next year via a combination of childcare credits for looking after my Grandson for 3 years followed by lower earnings credits ( that would otherwise cost me £900 a year to top up) . Oh and I also was able to claim 3 years for being a Forces Wife in Germany back in the 90’s.
Smug, me? You bet. 😚

Means testing the state pension is definitely in the post. It will have to happen. The question is when..

I find the person saying people are ‘jealous’ astounding. Can you really not imagine people wanting fairness, not motivated by personal greed?

I feel so relieved that younger generations are more aware of interrelated wellbeing and less — sorry, I don’t know how else to put it — selfish.

That's the benefit of being a rich country.

GDP per capita (USD)
Luxembourg 158,733
Switzerland 126,177
Iceland 110,048
Norway 105,877

UK 61,056

I'd like us to be much richer too, but we aren't.

All countries need to decide how to share out the pie. As a share of GDP per cap (on your figures), our state pensions are pretty much middle of that list, so it looks like we answer that in a roughly similar way.

What about the people claiming benefits for themselves and loads of kids that have never worked a day in their life? Should they be refused benefits because they've never paid a penny in?

To be fair that doesn't tell the whole story. Prices are much higher in some other countries with higher pensions, so people need higher pensions to buy the same goods.

This is true of Switzerland & Norway. Not sure about Luxembourg and Iceland but wouldn't be surprised.

I pay 11% of my salary into my workplace pension plus £800 a month into my personal pension. I work a full time job plus overtime plus an extra job - the equivalent of a 50 hour week every week. I pay NI contributions on both jobs. I have a full NI record. Why should some workshy fucker or someone who doesn’t contribute to their workplace or private pension schemes because they want to spend the money in the here and now be “gifted” (it’s either contributory or it’s not - you can’t say poor people deserve it as they’ve paid in but the better off are only paying into a communal pot and so aren’t entitled to any) a £13000 a year pension while I get fuck all? My retirement planning includes the full state pension and if I am going to be better off pissing my money up the wall or stopping working as hard then the time to tell me was 15-20 years ago. You can’t get people to pay into a specific retirement scheme for their entire working lives on top of their significant NI contributions and then laugh at them for being such dumbasses while handing the NI pot exclusively to those who haven’t saved a bean.

4 years into retirement I am discovering how expensive it is. About a third of the “amazing” triple lock increase each year goes on the 5% council tax increase. Heating and fuel have all gone up more than the standard inflation rate.
As we age it means more dentistry expenses, phisio isn’t available on NHS without a long and painful wait.
I used to work in the care sector ( for a charity) I’m a bit sceptical that the state will offer a good universal system of care when the NHS and dental services are so poor. We need to have some spare savings to ensure we will not be left to suffer alone or be stuck in hospital getting weaker if we get ill or injured.
Older people are another easy target, but we all get old in the end!
Those of us who are already retired and those in their last years at work have planned our finances around what was promised - and paid what we were asked to . I hope that older people will be able to make the same amount of noise about this as the Welfare Lobby over pips.
Each generation has its hardships and it is a total waste of time to go down the 15% interest v Student loan route of argument.

One last point - yes you can get more than the standard state pension if you were paid SERPs or SSP contributions. But the increases on those are not triple locked and you do pay income tax on them.

Human nature doesn't change.

I see no evidence that younger people are less selfish than older people. Quite ageist to suggest it is the case.

I agree conceptually it should be means tested however means tested always means that middle income people end up missing out and being poorer because they set the thresholds way too low. I would support a means testing if net worth was over £1m or something but not otherwise. This would need to be adjusted for inflation as in 30 years time I can imagine £1m being the cost of your average 4 bed detached home.

Pensioners do annoy me though (for lots of reasons not just this). They had everything handed to them and their lives are easy. I love my parents but they made £600k “downsizing” their house (just moved to a cheaper area) and have final salary work place pensions, my mum was able to be a sahm until my youngest brother was 6 and my dad has a masters with zero student debt. It’s not the sort of lifestyle that is remotely attainable now!

You realise not every recipient of the state pension will have paid taxes their whole life? That it is also available to those who have claimed benefits for many years/most of their life? In which case, it is of course an continuation of benefits.

I generally see older people being far more selfish than younger people and I don’t mind being called ageist. I find the boomer generation rude, entitled and selfish on the whole.

I think what will happen is that people will be deemed either fit to carry on working or not .

Once again, it will be the middle that will be done over. Never worked - here's £13k. Saved into a private pension and not had a holiday that you could otherwise have had, tough, you're not getting the £13. You'll be about as comfortable as the person that's done nothing or spent all of their money. Good old Labour - lets have everyone about the same, whether they work or not.

Nobody with any sense is seriously telling you that you won't get your pension.

The idea is occasionally floated by people who want to whip up rage against something that isn't happening,

This. The previous generation knew sacrifices most in society nowadays would balk at (war, rationing, power shortages, the list goes on and on). Let them live out their retirement in peace and comfort. They’ve earned it in ways we can never imagine.

Yeah. It was after all the vitriol and bitterness on here wrt the private school tax that I understood how widespread it was/ is. It was then I stopped giving a damn about others' lack of wealth. Sadly. And OP - I do hope your 'senior relative' knows who his / her friends are when it comes to the will. I am sure they do -it's quite easy to pick up on these things these days.

I am a pensioner (not a rich one - small occupational pension) and I'm in favour of ending the triple lock. However (and apologies if a pp has mentioned this) you need to factor in that your rich relative is contributing a hefty amount of tax to the economy - possible about 3 times as much as they are receiving in state pension (back of envelope calculation on annual pension of 120 K) - tax around £3K per month. So it's not all 'take take'

Did you type that with a straight face? Every one else can see the hypocrisy if you can’t.

@ThreadGuardDog I’m interested given your expertise, do you think it would be workable to make all benefits taxable income (like the state pension) or leave as now? As far as I’m aware certain incomes from benefits don’t count towards the overall tax you pay. I do not begrudge things like pip or universal credit but I don’t know if it’s right that some so called benefits (I call it old age living entitlement) are lumped into your personal allowance etc, when others aren’t.

I don't know what the answer is but something does need to change.
The fact is people are living much longer than they were so more is being paid out as state pensions.
I think attitudes need to change with regards to private pensions, people working now and I count myself in this need to be prepared to pay into their own pension rather than rely on the state pension as previous generations have.
Something has to give, the country is crippled, young people can't get houses as they are too expensive, they can't get jobs and ridiculous amount are being paid out as benefits.
I do think some of the older generation not all but some and my Mum is one, can be a bit entitled. For example my Mum stopped work to have children this was late 70's then went back part time when we were at school, then about 10 years later was made redundant and by her own admission didn't bother to get another job as she has worked enough. She lived off my Dad's wage that he worked hard for. But she is the first to moan about the state pension that she is 'entitled to' as much as anyone else who worked for years, in her eyes.

I do agree that CB should be means tested but I think the way they have done that is also wrong.

The world has changed and pensions, benefits etc need to change too.
I don't know what the answer is but I know I am glad it's not my job to sort out.

Only because they’ve not been prudent with their life choices and financial decisions

I agree with the end of the triple lock. But it's worth pointing out that it was usual back then for working class kids to leave school at 16 and go into full time work. That would mean 51 years of work until state pension age. And maternity leave statutory was only three months.

He's over 80, so will get an additional £100+ above the basic state pension, and he will have a significant further addition if he'd paid the maximum into SERPS.

I get around £6 extra a week, because I was paying into SERPs for a few years before it was abolished.

Pension credit rises with inflation, like all means-tested benefits. If SRP doesn't follow suit, it wouldn't be long before those who don't get SRP, or only partial SRP, because they haven't paid sufficient NI, will end up getting more than pensioners who've worked and paid NI for most of their adult lives.

My MIL gets pension credit because she only worked for 4 years before she stopped when she had her family. She gets around £6 a week less than my state pension, and I worked for 53 years. And she gets 75% off her council tax because she gets pension credit, so gets a fair bit more from the state overall.