To be glad triple lock going and hope they means test it too

[Randomamsi]

I have a multi millionaire senior relative who receives £1,400 from the state pension each month, in addition to 6k private pension.

He's not means tested and he's received that for 30 years. Yes, he paid into the system but he does not need it!!! He also had free uni, dirt cheap first house back in the 60s and retired aged 59.

Meanwhile the younger generation:

• thousands in student loan debt
• asset poor as can't get on the housing ladder
• means tested for child benefit, tax free childcare etc
• working until late 60s/ 70s

Why do pensioners have it easy while younger ones pay the price?

For vulnerable pensioners at risk of poverty, there should obviously be provision to help them, I'm not suggesting we let people starve. But multimillionaire pensioners or very asset rich pensioners do NOT need the state pension. It's about time things changed.

@Sky1ark ”Why would you pay into a private pension when the money is needed now and you’ll be penalised in retirement because of it?”

Because the alternative is living in relative poverty.

With NI, you're contributing to an overall pot not an individual one. Contributions go to pay for those who haven't paid any NI or little in their lifetime.

Yes but once you introduce means testing there is a threshold and that threshold will keep coming down

Im very careful. Live in a small house I've never upgraded, pay extra into my pension.

Someone else wouearn much more than me but be better at spending with a carefree attitude.

So will you means test how much we've earned across our lives or how much we have left at 67?

If they are a high net worth individual then they would have significantly paid more than the majority of us and they are absolutely entitled to draw their state pension.

YABVU in your basic wealth assessment. Life isn’t, a race to the bottom, if anything this could showcase what you could have by working - it is aspirational/ motivational.

@Blondiebeachbabe “How about this - how would you feel, if you saved into an ISA for the next 50 years, and then, when you decided to withdraw some money, as you want to stop working, your Bank said you didn't need the money, because you have a nice house and a few quid in another account, so they are going to give your money to someone more needy. How do you like those apples?”

That comparison does not work.

Where do you draw the line? What if someone is getting £20k a year in private pension and state pension on top? Take off the state pension completely?

It will get to the stage where people that have paid into a private pension aren't much better off than if they hadn't paid the money into a private pension. There should be a huge difference in the quality of retirement between someone that has put money aside and someone that hasn't. If it looks as though this is going to happen, people will just not bother saving and spend all their money when they are young.

At retirement age. Be grateful that other people are shouldering a much higher burden across the whole of their working lives and also contributing more to the economy by spending.

Irrespective of where posters stand on the triple lock, Burnham has clearly set the battle lines for the next GE, whether it’s in 2029, or next spring.

We shall all get the opportunity to have our voices heard, then.

No it doesn't.

I don't know what your age is (annuities are naturally more expensive for younger people who are expected to live longer) but that figure has probably been inflated by add-ons, like escalating payouts, joint life, payments that continue even after you die.

Joint life is IMO quite good value, but the effect is that you are buying annuities that cover two people, not one.

If you were 65 and bought an annuity for £700,000 you could get about £56k. Though you might do better using half that, and leaving the rest to grow so you could take out more in future.

Here are some examples of annuities from a £100,000 fund (although your fund used to be £133,333 before you have taken out 25% tax free cash to spend on a cruise, or the house, or a trip to Vegas or something, so cannot be described as part of the cost of a pension).

https://www.sharingpensions.co.uk/annuityrates.htm#text5

I can't even get angry at posts not wanting to give us pensions. By the time I get to it the pension age will be 85 anyway ot nonexistent at all. 🤷 And I am not youngling.

I’m interested to see what the opposition parties say.
They all know the TL is unaffordable.

They absolutely are benefits

I sincerely doubt anyone here is talking about you— unless you are a multimillionaire?

• Average State Pension in Luxembourg: £5,400 to £5,700 per month
• Switzerland: Roughly £2,400 per month
• Norway: Roughly £1,800 to £2,100 per month
• Iceland: £2,500 per month

He’s paying the WHOLE amount of his SP back as TAX, as is anyone else on that kind of pension income.
Jeez, are people really this financially illiterate?

Means testing also costs more than giving everyone the same.

True.

Also, it’s all very well asking pensioners to step
up, but why no word on reform of the welfare budget?

I don’t see that playing well with a large part
of the electorate.

Wonder how much tax he has paid into the system and people he has employed while working to become a multimillionaire?

The taxman "mean tests" pensioner income with income tax, capital gains etc etc .

Late to this @Randomamsi but your relative will have paid into the state pension of 34- 50 years. It would be immoral to withdraw that pension at the last minute. People have made choices over what they will need over age 66 and taking away £13K a year is not aceptable.

. And I assume you know that they will be taxed at 40% on their pension income , so a lot goes back to HMRC to pay other people's pensions! I think a lot of people don't appreciate this. You work hard all your life, your private pension is part of the that and then it's taxed when you getit.

Don't forget either that some of the biggest pensions are in the public sector. The public sector sometimes pays in 22% of annual salary into their pension compared to 6% in the private sector. There are millions of people - drs, nurses, local government employees, civil servants, on very generous pensions many of who have retired at 60 not 66 like the private sector.

If people knew from the start that the state pension was means-tested at 67, they could make provision over their lifetime and choose not to pay into the state pension. That would be the only way to make it fiar.

I agree that the maximum annual increase should be the rate of inflation, not the highest of 3 targets.

@Blondiebeachbabe says
I did what the Government asked of me - they told me that if I pay NI, that I will get a State Pension. They don't get to just decide when I'm 67, that despite me paying what they have asked me to, for 51 YEARS, that they aren't holding up their end of the bargain. They already moved the goal post by 7 years, which is bad enough.
Exactly so, NI and OAP have always been different to benefits, all the wording suggests that there is contract between the worker and the State.
You pay now whilst working and collect later, no other conditions are mentioned.
This contract type wording does not apply to any other payments we might receive.

dh and I have paid our mortgage and the plan is to save for our retirement. Why should we be punished just because we have moderate savings and have worked all our adult life and paid into the system?

Because others need it more.

It’s absolutely correct that means testing costs a lot. The ideal would be that super rich pensioners, like someone’s relative upthread, used an inbuilt and free means testing called ‘ethics’ not to take it if they were raking in the dough.

I did what the Government asked of me - they told me that if I pay NI, that I will get a State Pension

You had no choice but to pay NI...if you're a paye tax payers it's automatically taken out of your paycheck. You didn't enter into some sort of agreement. They just took it.

Thanks for the example. Do you know of any good online references sources that define the allowances and calculations? I ask as I’ve been wanting to research the current setup to inform my own opinions but can’t find any definitive website that sets them out.

Even the gov one pretty much just says “depends on your circumstances” and then asks you to submit your details.

I have Labour friends and the mindset is if you have any money it should be taken off you even if you've worked hard for it.

Do you know the cost of living in those countries?